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2 Corinthians Part 12 (Visions and thorns)
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“I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord” (ch12 v1)
Paul is being obliged to “boast” about his standing in God’s work in order to defend his claim to authority.
“I know a man who thirteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven.” Nobody doubts that Paul is talking about himself, expressing his claim with as little “boasting” as possible. As confirmed, really, by the following qualification; “whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows”. While he was there, he heard “things which cannot be told, which man may not utter.”
I would have liked to relate this to the Damascus Road experience, perhaps to the time when he lay sightless in Damascus, but the thirteen year interval is much too short. It would only take his timeline back to the beginning of his missionary journeys. Paul can hardly bring himself to identify with the man who had this experience, so strange and nearly “out of the body” it was. Yet it is clearly the climax of his case that he has authority from God. It is part of his claim to be a true apostle, someone who has “seen the Lord Jesus” (1 Corinthians ch9 v1) and who has been “sent out” on the Lord’s direct instructions.
This experience is Paul’s answer to anyone in Corinth who questions his right to speak with authority. It’s also his answer to anyone who criticises him on the same ground in modern times. Paul might be called arrogant and high-handed if his claims are false, but ONLY if his claims are false. If his calling and his knowledge really do come from God, then he has no choice but to accept the responsibility.
And he tells us that he was given something to protect from being “too elated by the abundance of revelation”. This was the famous “thorn in the flesh”. The nature of the thorn has been much debated. One possible clue is in the timing. Paul seems to imply that it was “given” to him at the time of the “abundant revelations”, as an immediate counter-balance. Then there is the response to Paul’s prayers in v9; “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” It seems to me that Paul wanted the thorn to be taken away because it was inhibiting his ability to express his teaching, The Lord’s reply amounts to “I will leave it there, so that your preaching is evidently coming from my own power instead of yours. It’s better that way.”
I think a simple difficulty in expressing himself would fit the description. It need not be any physical disability. A quiet voice and non-readiness in speech would do the job (though some commentators have suggested a stammer). WE know that his first preaching among the Galatians was made harder by some weakness [ASTHENIA] of the flesh (Galatians ch4 v13). Since Paul uses “flesh” to distinguish from “spirit”, the RSV’s “bodily ailment” is too positively medical. Some such difficulty is certainly indicated by the Corinthian jeer that “his bodily presence is weak and his speech of no account” (ch10 v10).
Other servants of God have been known to find speaking difficult. Moses was the meekest man on the earth, and he begged for Aaron to be allowed to speak to the people on his behalf. Ezekiel was petrified by the mission he was given and could not leave his house for days. Then the Lord called him back and revised his instructions, defining “staying at home and not saying anything” to be part of his modus operandi. It worked because curiosity motivated people into seeking him out. To pass to examples of lesser men, my own salvation has been the invention of writing.
The comments in ch10 show that Paul too found it easier to write than to talk. But the real answer for Paul was the Holy Spirit;
“My speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstrations of the Spirit and of power” (1 Corinthians ch2 v4).We don’t know how much of this power was demonstrated visually, as a substitute for speech, and how much was present IN his speech, as the Spirit put words into his mouth. Either way, it shows the meaning of “my power is made perfect in [your] weakness].” So the issue just becomes one of the many illustrations of the more general point, that Paul is content to work in “weakness” for the sake of Christ, including insults, hardships, and calamities.
Incidentally, vv8-9 are a proof-text that God does NOT always give us everything we ask for in prayer. So if we do not receive what we are asking for, it is not necessarily our faith that is at fault. James’ answer on the same issue is that we sometimes fail to get because we don’t ask, but sometimes it is because we ask for the wrong things (James ch4 vv2-3).
Finally he rebukes them because their obstreperous attitude has forced him to “boast” in this way (vv11-13). They were the ones who should have been commending him, instead of expecting a self-commendation. He knows that he is not inferior to these “chief” apostles. He has shown “with signs and wonders and mighty works” that he is a true apostle. The only true item he can find among their charges is that he neglected to burden them with monetary demands. So he sarcastically begs them to “forgive me this wrong!”
Paul is being obliged to “boast” about his standing in God’s work in order to defend his claim to authority.
“I know a man who thirteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven.” Nobody doubts that Paul is talking about himself, expressing his claim with as little “boasting” as possible. As confirmed, really, by the following qualification; “whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows”. While he was there, he heard “things which cannot be told, which man may not utter.”
I would have liked to relate this to the Damascus Road experience, perhaps to the time when he lay sightless in Damascus, but the thirteen year interval is much too short. It would only take his timeline back to the beginning of his missionary journeys. Paul can hardly bring himself to identify with the man who had this experience, so strange and nearly “out of the body” it was. Yet it is clearly the climax of his case that he has authority from God. It is part of his claim to be a true apostle, someone who has “seen the Lord Jesus” (1 Corinthians ch9 v1) and who has been “sent out” on the Lord’s direct instructions.
This experience is Paul’s answer to anyone in Corinth who questions his right to speak with authority. It’s also his answer to anyone who criticises him on the same ground in modern times. Paul might be called arrogant and high-handed if his claims are false, but ONLY if his claims are false. If his calling and his knowledge really do come from God, then he has no choice but to accept the responsibility.
And he tells us that he was given something to protect from being “too elated by the abundance of revelation”. This was the famous “thorn in the flesh”. The nature of the thorn has been much debated. One possible clue is in the timing. Paul seems to imply that it was “given” to him at the time of the “abundant revelations”, as an immediate counter-balance. Then there is the response to Paul’s prayers in v9; “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” It seems to me that Paul wanted the thorn to be taken away because it was inhibiting his ability to express his teaching, The Lord’s reply amounts to “I will leave it there, so that your preaching is evidently coming from my own power instead of yours. It’s better that way.”
I think a simple difficulty in expressing himself would fit the description. It need not be any physical disability. A quiet voice and non-readiness in speech would do the job (though some commentators have suggested a stammer). WE know that his first preaching among the Galatians was made harder by some weakness [ASTHENIA] of the flesh (Galatians ch4 v13). Since Paul uses “flesh” to distinguish from “spirit”, the RSV’s “bodily ailment” is too positively medical. Some such difficulty is certainly indicated by the Corinthian jeer that “his bodily presence is weak and his speech of no account” (ch10 v10).
Other servants of God have been known to find speaking difficult. Moses was the meekest man on the earth, and he begged for Aaron to be allowed to speak to the people on his behalf. Ezekiel was petrified by the mission he was given and could not leave his house for days. Then the Lord called him back and revised his instructions, defining “staying at home and not saying anything” to be part of his modus operandi. It worked because curiosity motivated people into seeking him out. To pass to examples of lesser men, my own salvation has been the invention of writing.
The comments in ch10 show that Paul too found it easier to write than to talk. But the real answer for Paul was the Holy Spirit;
“My speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstrations of the Spirit and of power” (1 Corinthians ch2 v4).We don’t know how much of this power was demonstrated visually, as a substitute for speech, and how much was present IN his speech, as the Spirit put words into his mouth. Either way, it shows the meaning of “my power is made perfect in [your] weakness].” So the issue just becomes one of the many illustrations of the more general point, that Paul is content to work in “weakness” for the sake of Christ, including insults, hardships, and calamities.
Incidentally, vv8-9 are a proof-text that God does NOT always give us everything we ask for in prayer. So if we do not receive what we are asking for, it is not necessarily our faith that is at fault. James’ answer on the same issue is that we sometimes fail to get because we don’t ask, but sometimes it is because we ask for the wrong things (James ch4 vv2-3).
Finally he rebukes them because their obstreperous attitude has forced him to “boast” in this way (vv11-13). They were the ones who should have been commending him, instead of expecting a self-commendation. He knows that he is not inferior to these “chief” apostles. He has shown “with signs and wonders and mighty works” that he is a true apostle. The only true item he can find among their charges is that he neglected to burden them with monetary demands. So he sarcastically begs them to “forgive me this wrong!”
a reply to: DISRAELI
Really enjoyed this read. Some have speculated that the thorn in the flesh was his eyesight. As he may not have been able to see well enough to write his letters. He had to have someone else write for him. And he would sign them at the end of the letter in his own writing:
"Here is my greeting, Paul’s, in my own hand."-1 Corinthians 16:21.
"See with what large letters I have written you with my own hand."-Galatians 6:11.
"Here is my greeting, Paul’s, in my own hand."-Colossians 4:18.
"Here is my greeting, Paul’s, in my own hand, which is a sign in every letter; this is the way I write."-2 Thessalonians 3:17.
It seems obvious because of these scriptures that he used a secretary to write for him. And this could just be a way of confirming that the letter was really from him, as it appears that false teachers were writing letters in his name. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2), and not because of an eyesight issue. We really don't know. Reading some of his speeches like the one in Acts 17 at the Areopagus, I find it hard to imagine him with a speech impediment.
Others speculate that it may have been the superfine apostles, and false teachers that were his thorn in the flesh. Like you mentioned some of these very ones had him boast about his authority in 2 Corinthians 12. Not that he wanted to, but he was establishing, like you mentioned, his authority as an apostle, many in the congregation were sadly speaking against him. Interestingly up to this very day, and even on this website you have many people that speak up against Paul.
Have you ever wondered what those supernatural revelations were that he was forbidden to reveal? If you read through his letters he seemed to have a very accurate understanding of exactly what was going to happen in the last days, in which we live, and key events as they unfold. He was the one that reveals that the anointed Christian congregation will receive immortal spirit bodies in the divine form of God himself in heaven when they are resurrected. It is my belief that he was shown everything and knew about everything, but was not allowed to reveal it. But was allowed to reveal enough, to help the anointed Christian congregation, in this time of the end to be prepared, for example for the cry of "peace and security" that is coming in the near future. Of course that is just my idea. He certainly had an understanding of future events that no one else wrote about in scripture except for perhaps Daniel (who really didn't understand, he just wrote what he was told) and John. He too wrote down the visions he received that were given to him in signs, which were not made understandable until the future time those events were unfolding.
Really enjoyed this read. Some have speculated that the thorn in the flesh was his eyesight. As he may not have been able to see well enough to write his letters. He had to have someone else write for him. And he would sign them at the end of the letter in his own writing:
"Here is my greeting, Paul’s, in my own hand."-1 Corinthians 16:21.
"See with what large letters I have written you with my own hand."-Galatians 6:11.
"Here is my greeting, Paul’s, in my own hand."-Colossians 4:18.
"Here is my greeting, Paul’s, in my own hand, which is a sign in every letter; this is the way I write."-2 Thessalonians 3:17.
It seems obvious because of these scriptures that he used a secretary to write for him. And this could just be a way of confirming that the letter was really from him, as it appears that false teachers were writing letters in his name. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2), and not because of an eyesight issue. We really don't know. Reading some of his speeches like the one in Acts 17 at the Areopagus, I find it hard to imagine him with a speech impediment.
Others speculate that it may have been the superfine apostles, and false teachers that were his thorn in the flesh. Like you mentioned some of these very ones had him boast about his authority in 2 Corinthians 12. Not that he wanted to, but he was establishing, like you mentioned, his authority as an apostle, many in the congregation were sadly speaking against him. Interestingly up to this very day, and even on this website you have many people that speak up against Paul.
Have you ever wondered what those supernatural revelations were that he was forbidden to reveal? If you read through his letters he seemed to have a very accurate understanding of exactly what was going to happen in the last days, in which we live, and key events as they unfold. He was the one that reveals that the anointed Christian congregation will receive immortal spirit bodies in the divine form of God himself in heaven when they are resurrected. It is my belief that he was shown everything and knew about everything, but was not allowed to reveal it. But was allowed to reveal enough, to help the anointed Christian congregation, in this time of the end to be prepared, for example for the cry of "peace and security" that is coming in the near future. Of course that is just my idea. He certainly had an understanding of future events that no one else wrote about in scripture except for perhaps Daniel (who really didn't understand, he just wrote what he was told) and John. He too wrote down the visions he received that were given to him in signs, which were not made understandable until the future time those events were unfolding.
edit on 6-10-2023 by randomuser because: (no reason given)
a reply to: DISRAELI
Curiously, the trail-blazing Christian missionary and apostle Paul appears nowhere in the secular histories of his age. Ironically, though supposedly in Jerusalem at the right time, he can give no witness to a historical Jesus. But was Paul himself a genuine historical figure? The Pauline journeys, including the supposed transportation of the apostle to Rome, are characterized by incongruities, contradiction, and the absurd.
Curiously, the trail-blazing Christian missionary and apostle Paul appears nowhere in the secular histories of his age. Ironically, though supposedly in Jerusalem at the right time, he can give no witness to a historical Jesus. But was Paul himself a genuine historical figure? The Pauline journeys, including the supposed transportation of the apostle to Rome, are characterized by incongruities, contradiction, and the absurd.
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