Romans Developed Super Concrete

www.sciencealert.com...

Roman concrete was probably made by mixing the quicklime directly with the pozzolana and water at extremely high temperatures, by itself or in addition to slaked lime, a process the team calls "hot mixing" that results in the lime clasts.

"The benefits of hot mixing are twofold," Masic said.

"First, when the overall concrete is heated to high temperatures, it allows chemistries that are not possible if you only used slaked lime, producing high-temperature-associated compounds that would not otherwise form. Second, this increased temperature significantly reduces curing and setting times since all the reactions are accelerated, allowing for much faster construction."

the resulting product seals its own cracks

When cracks form in the concrete, they preferentially travel to the lime clasts, which have a higher surface area than other particles in the matrix. When water gets into the crack, it reacts with the lime to form a solution rich in calcium that dries and hardens as calcium carbonate, gluing the crack back together and preventing it from spreading further.

clever fellows.
one wonders what other technologies and methods have been lost to time.
so will we see this method adopted by modern companies?

a reply to: ElGoobero


Thanks for finding this and letting us know. I believe I noticed this Sunday morning on my news feed but...I was so hungover I didn't open the article! But know I'm not hungover and totally would have forgot to search for this like I intended.

a reply to: ElGoobero


2000 years old and still strong and not decaying . The idea to use volcanic sand was a genius idea in concrete .

They were to soft in my neck of the woods though and had to build a wall as they were scared of the locals .

Signed A Picti

a reply to: ElGoobero

Interesting. It's said a Stradivarius violin gets it's bright sound...because he mixed volcanic ash into the varnish. Hard, solid, lasts forever.

Amazing they learned to do concrete "underwater" too!

a reply to: ElGoobero

so will we see this method adopted by modern companies?

Never. They could be doing it now but then they wouldn't have ongoing contracts for continuous repairs. Roman roads have lasted thousands of years. Modern roads get repaired every year and they need it badly because they simply don't last.

a reply to: ElGoobero

"Recipe" was lost for a long time.

Cheers

I'm going to show this article to my husband. He worked with concrete for 45 years, I know he will find it fascinating!

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: ElGoobero

Interesting. It's said a Stradivarius violin gets it's bright sound...because he mixed volcanic ash into the varnish. Hard, solid, lasts forever.

Amazing they learned to do concrete "underwater" too!

I can remember using a tin of pink wood primer 40 plus years ago and the tin was 30 yo and water based ,, the contents were interesting egg whites ? Even coffee and tea was used to stain wood back in the day but I would love to try the wood primer of old on a violin .

a reply to: ElGoobero

I have gotten some experimental geopolymers from a university, also made a "self healing" mix by accident.

Best batches were made from granite that i powdered to different sizes, varying from chunks to dust.

Really useful stuff, pretty much cured in 24 hours in molds.

These things were available in ancient times too.

a reply to: ElGoobero

This came out earlier this year from what I remember. What they found was that Roman Concrete is self healing. What they attributed to attributed to sloppy mixing or poor-quality raw materials is what actually makes it last longer. who knew.?

originally posted by: XipeTotex
a reply to: ElGoobero

I have gotten some experimental geopolymers from a university, also made a "self healing" mix by accident.

Best batches were made from granite that i powdered to different sizes, varying from chunks to dust.

Really useful stuff, pretty much cured in 24 hours in molds.

These things were available in ancient times too.

I can remember a thread here from years ago where this was being discussed and finding old newspaper articles about this technique with granite being powdered down in a 3 to 1 ratio unfortunately the site went offline as did the member I was talking to about it .

And laughing as bat # or guano and salt were discussed as well

a reply to: stonerwilliam

Oh yeah...me too as a young luthier trainee in Ann Arbor in the early 70's.

Speaking of concrete? They say that Hoover Dam n all it concrete...is still curing after all these years!

a reply to: ElGoobero

They did, but concrete has been around a very long time:

Nabataea traders:

"6500BC – UAE: The earliest recordings of concrete structures date back to 6500BC by the Nabataea traders in regions of Syria and Jordan. They created concrete floors, housing structures, and underground cisterns. 3000 BC – Egypt and China: Egyptians used mud mixed with straw to bind dried bricks."

originally posted by: stonerwilliam

originally posted by: XipeTotex
a reply to: ElGoobero

I have gotten some experimental geopolymers from a university, also made a "self healing" mix by accident.

Best batches were made from granite that i powdered to different sizes, varying from chunks to dust.

Really useful stuff, pretty much cured in 24 hours in molds.

These things were available in ancient times too.

I can remember a thread here from years ago where this was being discussed and finding old newspaper articles about this technique with granite being powdered down in a 3 to 1 ratio unfortunately the site went offline as did the member I was talking to about it .

And laughing as bat # or guano and salt were discussed as well

You would be surprised how nasty guano and stuff like that can be made, potent chemicals, also powdering granite to dust, even a monkey can do that.. its a valid theory i think.

Its really a whole big thing, there are true geopolymers then there is a wide range of alkali activated materials that differ from your basic portland cement.

The more i researched it the more it all starts to look like that someone has deleted technology in the last couple hundred years or so.

a reply to: Merman

Thanks for walking all that way to see the Nile... Enjoy this free pair of reed shoes on the journey back.

As the reed wore out on the journey the more straw as a dust was added to the road and the walking helped compact it.

Conservation of energy with a renewable resource of reeds.

If we developed a tire that as it wore repaired the roads they're on?

Then we'd all be going in the right direction.

a reply to: ElGoobero

Sounds like a type of Polymeric Concrete, the Romans were ahead of their time in a few areas
How many civilizations came and went and their basic advancements did not carry on with them.

Common mistake everyone makes.
The "road" that get repaired is only the top layer and is meant to be replaced. Rather that then have to replace the entire thing. Economically its far cheaper and faster to have that top layer be the part to replace.
Another thing to take into account is those roads hardly had any stress put on them. (Wagons that weighed at most a few hundred lbs.) Those roads also had ongoing upkeep and cost them a arm and a leg. Although it was seen as a necessary as it had a huge advantage militarily and was a masive boon to the economy as it made it easier and safer for merchants to move goods.
Compare that to the modern road that withstands thousands of tons going accross it sometimes by the minute.
Dont get me wrong Roman roads are amazing and a engineering feat rarely observed before the industrial revolution.
a reply to: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: XipeTotex

originally posted by: stonerwilliam

originally posted by: XipeTotex
a reply to: ElGoobero

I have gotten some experimental geopolymers from a university, also made a "self healing" mix by accident.

Best batches were made from granite that i powdered to different sizes, varying from chunks to dust.

Really useful stuff, pretty much cured in 24 hours in molds.

These things were available in ancient times too.

I can remember a thread here from years ago where this was being discussed and finding old newspaper articles about this technique with granite being powdered down in a 3 to 1 ratio unfortunately the site went offline as did the member I was talking to about it .

And laughing as bat # or guano and salt were discussed as well

You would be surprised how nasty guano and stuff like that can be made, potent chemicals, also powdering granite to dust, even a monkey can do that.. its a valid theory i think.

Its really a whole big thing, there are true geopolymers then there is a wide range of alkali activated materials that differ from your basic portland cement.

The more i researched it the more it all starts to look like that someone has deleted technology in the last couple hundred years or so.

I have come across videos years ago that shocked me , ancient sites with ree-bar in them ? But with dementia now it makes life hard .

I do remember reading the newspapers from 18 something where it gave all the instructions of what to use etc ,but the link is dead now and I think the member I was talking to got clobbered with the ban hammer

I was thinking of doing a chess set and would like to give something a try one day hopefully

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: ElGoobero

so will we see this method adopted by modern companies?

Never. They could be doing it now but then they wouldn't have ongoing contracts for continuous repairs. Roman roads have lasted thousands of years. Modern roads get repaired every year and they need it badly because they simply don't last.

Roman roads didn't have our level of traffic or the weight of our vehicles.

And most Roman roads were made of the local stone. If you've ever lived anywhere with cobblestone roads (I have in Germany) then you know that they also need repair.