Does the Vatican play a role in the end times?

originally posted by: Jeremiah33three
a reply to: neoholographic

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

Great points!

Some Preterist think you don't need Christ any more because everything happened in the 1st century. So now all you need is their super, duper secret knowledge that somehow knows these metaphors but they can't answer basic questions.

The Bible warns us about unsound doctrine and Preterism fits the bill.

It tells people to ignore any signs because it all happened already and therefore listen to their secret super duper knowledge that will lead you to Heaven and forget Christ.

The Bible says:

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

When did this happen? Israel hasn't had one king since Rehoboam around 931 B.C.

The Bible tells us Israel was blinded in part for the sake of the Gentiles.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

When did the fulness of the Gentiles occur?

If Israel is no longer blinded in part, why are they still trying to do animal sacrifices? Why do they still want a Third temple?

Preterism is a false doctrine.

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: Jeremiah33three
a reply to: neoholographic

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

Great points!

Some Preterist think you don't need Christ any more because everything happened in the 1st century. So now all you need is their super, duper secret knowledge that somehow knows these metaphors but they can't answer basic questions.

The Bible warns us about unsound doctrine and Preterism fits the bill.

It tells people to ignore any signs because it all happened already and therefore listen to their secret super duper knowledge that will lead you to Heaven and forget Christ.

No, secret knowledge will not get you transferred to the kingdom of Heaven. You have to be born of water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 2:6 "God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus"

Revelation 3:21 "To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne"

born of water and the Spirit = baptised with water and the Spirit

Mark 1:8 "I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: Proto88
Something like the early Vatican an it hand picking, authoritizing an censoring the Bible. And it basically being the last remanants of Rome, captors or saviors of the chosen folks, that Christian can or can't stand, an the last beast in Daniel's Vision which get reiterated in revelations.

Babyolan all over again, an Pretism, ftw.

Exactly, the Vatican is spirit of the Roman Empire going from Emperors(7 heads with crowns) to the Papace(7 heads of blasphemy).

The Vatican is located on the circus of Nero:

The Circus of Nero or Circus of Caligula was a circus in ancient Rome, located mostly in the present-day Vatican City.

en.wikipedia.org...

There's probably so much hidden beneath the Vatican.

The prophecy in Daniel about the 10 horns gives you knowledge of who the successors of the Roman Empire were.

“After this I kept watching in the visions of the night, and I saw a fourth beast, fearsome and terrifying and unusually strong, and it had large iron teeth. It was devouring and crushing, and what was left it trampled down with its feet. It was different from all the other beasts that were prior to it, and it had ten horns."-Daniel 7:7.

This fearsome beast was the Roman Empire. It followed the break up of the world empire of Greece into four hellenistic kingdoms. And eventually absorbed them all.

The Roman World Power, however, did not end with the removal of its last emperor in Rome in 476 C.E. For many centuries, papal Rome continued to exercise political, and especially religious, domination over Europe. It did so through the feudal system, in which most inhabitants of Europe were subject to a lord, then to a king. And all kings acknowledged the authority of the pope. Thus the Holy Roman Empire with papal Rome as its focal point dominated world affairs throughout that long period of history called the Dark Ages.

Please remember that the number 10 in Bible prophecy represents, a complete group, so the 10 horns were all of the kingdoms that grew from the Roman Empire. The Bible prophecy focuses in on 4 in particular. Three that would be plucked out by a fourth:

"While I considered the horns, look! another horn, a small one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were plucked up from before it. And look! there were eyes like human eyes in this horn, and there was a mouth speaking arrogantly."-Daniel 7:8.

Who were the three horns that were "plucked" by another that came up among them, and who was this 4th horn that had an eye like a human and was speaking arrogantly?

Consider, until the 17th century, Britain was a relatively insignificant power. Three other regions of the old Roman Empire—Spain, the Netherlands, and France—were far more influential. Britain plucked those powers out one by one, removing them from their positions of prestige. By the mid-18th century, Britain was on its way to become the dominant power on the world scene. But it had not yet become the seventh head of the wild beast. See this post for further information on how we can determine the seventh head of the wild beast of Revelation 13 is the last reigning world power in Bible history, the Anglo-American duel world power.

Though Britain gained dominance, colonies in North America broke away. Even so, the United States was allowed to grow mighty, protected by British naval power. By the time the Lord’s day began in 1914, Britain had built the largest empire in history and the United States had become the greatest industrial power on earth. During World War I, the United States forged a special partnership with Britain. The seventh head of the beast had now emerged as the Anglo-American World Power.

a reply to: Ove38

Vicar means substitute. I don’t believe that we are a substitute.

There are other examples such as the title “Holy Father”.

a reply to: Ove38

Christ's reign began in the 1st century, he is the king of the new Israel, the kingdom of God.

No it didn't. The Bible tells us that Christ will reign on earth for 1,000 years of peace while he bounds Satan to the Abyss during that period. Sorry, but that hasn't happened yet. There has been no kingdom of righteousness yet because Satan hasn't been removed yet for that 1,000 year period. Read Revelation 20:1-6 again.

a reply to: neoholographic

Yes it does, but we're not quite sure how to interpret and intercept that.

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: Proto88
Something like the early Vatican an it hand picking, authoritizing an censoring the Bible. And it basically being the last remanants of Rome, captors or saviors of the chosen folks, that Christian can or can't stand, an the last beast in Daniel's Vision which get reiterated in revelations.

Babyolan all over again, an Pretism, ftw.

Exactly, the Vatican is spirit of the Roman Empire going from Emperors(7 heads with crowns) to the Papace(7 heads of blasphemy).

The Vatican is located on the circus of Nero:

The Circus of Nero or Circus of Caligula was a circus in ancient Rome, located mostly in the present-day Vatican City.

en.wikipedia.org...

There's probably so much hidden beneath the Vatican.

The Vatican as the seat of the Roman Catholic Church is part of the prostitute that sits on the scarlet colored wild beast, the image of the 7-headed wild beast of Revelation 13. As a religious institution that meddles in politics and wars she is considered a prostitute in God's eyes who whores herself to the nations.

"Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God."-James 4:4.

The 7 heads of the dragon and the 7 diadems represent its rulership and power over the 7 heads of the wild beast of Revelation 13, those 7 heads were the 7 world powers of Bible history:

(1) Egypt
(2) Assyria
(3) Babylon
(4) Medo-Perisa
(5) Greece
(6) Rome
(7) Anglo-American world power.

The wild beast has “upon its heads blasphemous names,” making claims for itself that show great disrespect for Jehovah God and Christ Jesus. It has used the names of God and Christ as a sham to achieve its political ends; and it has played along with false religion, even allowing the clergy to take part in its political processes. For example, the House of Lords in England includes the bishops. Catholic cardinals have played prominent political roles in France and Italy, priests have taken political office in Latin America. Governments print religious slogans, such as “IN GOD WE TRUST,” on their bank notes, and on their coins they claim divine approval for their rulers, stating, for example, that these are appointed “by the grace of God.” All of this is actually blasphemous, for it attempts to involve God in the sullied nationalistic political arena that is clearly ruled by God's enemy, Satan the Devil.

It also claims that it will accomplish what only God's kingdom in Jesus' hands will do: worldwide peace and security. No human government, or coalition of nations will achieve these aims. It is a false promise, man's rulers cannot achieve what only God's kingdom government will do when it establishes a righteous reign of peace over all the earth during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ.

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff
a reply to: Ove38

Vicar means substitute. I don’t believe that we are a substitute.

There are other examples such as the title “Holy Father”.

Exactly!

Why does Christ need a substitute when He said,"It is Finished?"

We're the Body of Christ because of the Holy Spirit.

We don't need a pope that's a "Vicar for Christ" or "Holy Father" or "Pontifex Maximus."

The Catholic Church has killed and tortured so many people and there's nothing in the teachings of Christ that says if people don't convert and follow Christ kill them and torture them.

Catholic means universal so their goal is a universal religion that glorifies humanity not Christ.

Papal is not about Christ, it's about making one man all powerful over souls on earth.

Papal supremacy is the doctrine of the Catholic Church that the Pope, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, the visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful, and as pastor of the entire Catholic Church, has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered:[1] that, in brief, "the Pope enjoys, by divine institution, supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls."[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Ove38

Christ's reign began in the 1st century, he is the king of the new Israel, the kingdom of God.

No it didn't. The Bible tells us that Christ will reign on earth for 1,000 years of peace while he bounds Satan to the Abyss during that period. Sorry, but that hasn't happened yet. There has been no kingdom of righteousness yet because Satan hasn't been removed yet for that 1,000 year period. Read Revelation 20:1-6 again.

Revelation 20:1-6 "And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."

This happened in the 1st century

Ephesians 2:6 "God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus"

Revelation 1:5 "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father"

"thousand years" = a very long time

You must enter into his kingdom of peace and love.

a reply to: Ove38

You said:

"thousand years" = a very long time

So a thousand years doesn't mean 1,000 years. It means a very long time. Of course this is done because Preterist just make it up as they go and if it doesn't fit their belief, make it metaphorical.

You also twisted Ephesians. The King James says:

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

These verses tell you that even though we were dead in sins we hath been quickened with Christ and made us to sit in Heavenly places IN Christ Jesus. This is speaking in the spiritual.

The transformation from our physical bodies to spiritual bodies haven't happened yet. This is the Resurrection.

If it did, why are you typing on ATS instead of reigning with Christ in a spiritual body? The Bible says:

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

So why aren't you immortal if all of things have happened?

Again, this is why I'm glad Preterism is a fringe belief. It should tell you it's wrong when you have to constantly fit scripture into your belief. Then when it doesn't fit, it becomes a metaphor. Again I ask.

When did the fulness of the Gentiles occur?

If Israel is no longer blinded in part, why are they still trying to do animal sacrifices? Why do they still want a Third temple?

When did Israel unite under one king? Why are their still Jews in America? Why are their still Jews in Europe? The Bible says in the end times all Jews will be gathered from other nations to Israel to unite under 1 king.

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

When did this happen? Israel hasn't had one king since Rehoboam around 931 B.C.

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: Ove38

You said:

"thousand years" = a very long time

So a thousand years doesn't mean 1,000 years. It means a very long time. Of course this is done because Preterist just make it up as they go and if it doesn't fit their belief, make it metaphorical.

You also twisted Ephesians. The King James says:

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

These verses tell you that even though we were dead in sins we hath been quickened with Christ and made us to sit in Heavenly places IN Christ Jesus. This is speaking in the spiritual.

The transformation from our physical bodies to spiritual bodies haven't happened yet. This is the Resurrection.

If it did, why are you typing on ATS instead of reigning with Christ in a spiritual body? The Bible says:

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

So why aren't you immortal if all of things have happened?

No one said, all things have happened. The "thousand year" reign of Christ, has not ended yet.

resurrection of the spirit = raised from spiritual death

resurrection of the body = raised from physical death

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live"

The resurrection of the spirit is now. The resurrection of the body, comes later.

Christ was raised physically, our bodily resurrection will be physical like Christ’s.