A No Knock Warrant Resulted In A Man's Death

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: panoz77

Well I don't recommend it. I suppose if you live alone you may not have an issue keeping it close. However, he was a legal owner, so he could sleep with it in his hand, under his pillow, in a holster, wherever he wants I suppose.

Is that proper gun safety? Literally sleeping with a loaded gun in your hand? Not for responsible gun owners. It would seem this person must have had some really bad enemies to be sleeping with a loaded gun in his hand. Very odd.

Till the police can show they can manage it and not kill innocents it should be shelved.

Even if they prove they can manage it unless someone is bunkered in, why is this level of force needed?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

It's the same thing, they announced in this case as well. Poorly, but they did.

They actually entered before announcing and didn't knock such as a "no-knock" warrant allows. I have no problem with a knock and announce followed by entering within a very short period of time.

I do have a problem with kicking a door in and then screaming police once in the room as a person is asleep or whatever. In both cases they better be 100% correct too, or heads should roll and big payouts should happen. They also need better tactics since this is high risk for both parties.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
They actually entered before announcing and didn't knock such as a "no-knock+ warrant allows. I have no problem with a knock and announce followed by entering within a very short period of time.

You know as well as I do they are going to say it was announced.

a reply to: panoz77

I don't think it's safe. However as an owner as long as he's following the law he can do what he wants in his home.

I would not necessarily think he has enemies. Maybe he lived in an apartment building that had home invasions or break ins. Not everyone has the luxury of living in a safe neighborhood, especially at a young age.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
The body cam seems to support the claim. They announced as they came in.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

You know as well as I do they are going to say it was announced.

I have always had issues with that. I keep seeing this scenario in my head of a home invasion were the bad guys just need to say "POLICE!" as they kick in your door, and then say sucker...The Bad guys do use whatever works for them.

They need better tactics to not shoot first then ask questions when they startle someone whose first instinct is to protect themselves, especially in bad neighborhoods.

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: panoz77

I don't think it's safe. However as an owner as long as he's following the law he can do what he wants in his home.

I would not necessarily think he has enemies. Maybe he lived in an apartment building that had home invasions or break ins. Not everyone has the luxury of living in a safe neighborhood, especially at a young age.

I agree with you, but do we know the condition of the firearm when it was recovered?
The police may say that it was 'loaded', but they would say that if it had a loaded magazine in it, even if it did not have a round chambered.
A guy could sleep with a pistol (not a revolver) in his hand all night without fear if there was no round in the chamber.

Police use the excuse that a person might shoot through the door at them if they knock.

I hope everyone realizes that that can happen every time a cop knocks on a door.... warrant or not.

a reply to: butcherguy

I'm not sure. I think I saw photos of it, but I'm not sure if it's in the linked article or another one.

a reply to: Xtrozero

That's the one.

...and, oh so true.

In my world view, the guilty will one day answer. Whether to man, or God, matters not. I'd rather they live a long life, than one innocent suffer.

Sounds trite when I read it...but, y'know?

originally posted by: butcherguy
Police use the excuse that a person might shoot through the door at them if they knock.

I hope everyone realizes that that can happen every time a cop knocks on a door.... warrant or not.

As I said better tactics, such as the guy who knocks and first guy in should have a shield to stop any bullets flying and to assets the situation.

BTW the whole idea behind it was an anti drug campaign back in the 70s. Didn't want to give people any time to flush the drugs down the toilet etc. The problem is that now we can look back 50 years and really see if it works, or is it too much of a risk for both parties to rush a room hoping to maybe catch people with drugs.

Here is video of the incident to hopefully clear things up:

Cousin of man killed during search warrant arrested in homicide investigation

As already mentioned, the police had the apartment key, used it to unlock & open the door, entered the dwelling and announced the warrant a split second later.

The linked article goes into more detail about the entire context of why the police were entering that apartment. Not even going to try to describe the tangled nest of relations and with whom they were each living and staying.

I had previously wondered if authorities could've served the warrant differently and hopefully avoided this situation, and while I still wonder that, consider that the police are tracking a man wanted for murder, having to serve multiple warrants in different locations to track down the suspect.

Waiting around outside apartments to try to split hairs and maximize safety of the friends/associates of the murder suspect, while the suspect is still on the loose, might have prevented this, but then again, I wonder if waiting patiently for the suspect to ping pong around the various places he stayed, armed and dangerous, would be second guessed if the suspect killed another person during the investigation.

It sounds like the young man killed made a very poor decision to shack up at his cousin's apartment (the brother of the murder suspect).

I don't know if that completely absolves the police of blame.

If the deceased actually knew that his cousin had committed a murder, he would've been wise to get as far away from him as possible. Was he staying there armed to help against possible retaliation for the murder? No idea.

One way to avoid police shootings is to not shoot other people, during alleged drug deals, and make yourself the target of a fugitive apprehension warrant or hang around people that are in such a situation. It's all FUBAR, but when you consider that the suspect was possibly staying in one of 3 different apartments, it makes you understand that the situation was a little more complex than I initially thought it was.