Pre-poll clash on tax and spend

Labour and the Tories have clashed over tax and spending plans as the row over Gordon Brown's Budget turned into a pre-election battle.

Tony Blair claimed a Tory government would "cut" £35bn from public services hitting schools, hospitals and police.

Shadow chancellor Oliver Letwin said his savings were from bureaucracy and claimed a third term Labour government would have to raise taxes.

The Lib Dems accused Mr Brown of ducking the issue of council tax rises.

Mr Brown and Tony Blair staged a show of unity on Thursday morning, the day after the chancellor delivered a record-breaking ninth Budget.

It seems the recent budget has brought out the guns on both sides. Even though a general election has not been called, it seems that the three main parties leaders are rallying the troops on the budget. And the labour budget, seems to be one to "win the election".

I think Labour is going to try and fight the election on the 'economy' and try and keep hush hush about Immigration, NHS, Crime etc.

It seems the recent budget has brought out the guns on both sides.

Problem is the guns aren't loaded

Originally posted by UK Wizard
Problem is the guns aren't loaded

lol

I think Labour is going to try and fight the election on the 'economy' and try and keep hush hush about Immigration, NHS, Crime etc.

Same here, i think its funny how they dont speak about immigration and crime.

Originally posted by infinite
Same here, i think its funny how they dont speak about immigration and crime.

- I suppose it's because when it comes to it (even though people when asked by polls say it is a worry or a concern) it is actually something that most realise does not touch their lives in a meaningful day to day sense, whereas things like the economy, and the public services do.

For instance take gun crime.


Even though the numbers might have risen alarmingly spread over 60million of us (and what with much of it concentrated in certain cities across the UK) it is not for most anything like a daily concern.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
(even though people when asked by polls say it is a worry or a concern)

Maybe they care what happens to others in their country and not just themselves. Maybe we're not all selfish gits who only think of ourselves.

And I think its funny that you use polls when they benefit you but you discredit them when they oppose your view.

Originally posted by UK Wizard
Maybe they care what happens to others in their country and not just themselves. Maybe we're not all selfish gits who only think of ourselves.

- I don't think that it's about any "selfish-ness" Wizard, it's simplt hard for p[eople to get as almightily worked up as the small minority that do when people can't see it for themselves in their own lives (and never have).

And I think its funny that you use polls when they benefit you but you discredit them when they oppose your view.

- I haven't picked and chosen this; could you explain why you think that?

I think it is perfectly consistent to on the one hand question the background facts regarding those polls which express such 'concerns' and on the other acknowledge that that is what is being said in those polls.

I think people are wrong to imagine the typical 'rising tide' nonsense, and I consistently say so, but I cannot deny that some people do say that kind of thing.

(The figures quoted BTW are thanks to Ace of Bass doing some excellent work trawling the Home Office stats)

You have voted sminkeypinkey for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month

thank you for the information on crime

Originally posted by infinite
You have voted sminkeypinkey for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month

thank you for the information on crime

- Cheers mate but like I said it was really Ace of Basses' work (I did give him a way above for it so I guess I won't feel bad. )

Interesting that almost every catagory of 'real' firearm offence is down (except for the 40 or so additional crimes relating to the 'unspecified') and that most of the increase is all about replicas, eh?
I wonder (seeing as it is topical especially if you're Scots what with the Scots Parliament considering a registration of sale scheme) what the airgun crime rates are.

[edit on 18-3-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- I haven't picked and chosen this; could you explain why you think that?

Maybe I've been overly aggressive, but you seem to use polls when they suit you which I guess is standard politics, I personally don't like polls as they cloud the issue and never accurately portray public opinion.
Sorry if I've been overly hostile.

Originally posted by UK Wizard
Sorry if I've been overly hostile.

- You're ok Wizard.

I do think it's fair that any of us can comment on what a poll might indicate without us necessarily having to agree with them.

For instance here I have not denied that several polls show gun crime is a 'worry' for many in the country; but I have trouble agreeing this a realistic worry considering it's infrequency in our society.

I really don't think I was going a bundle on using a poll itself to prove the point.