A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment in most of the US

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Xenogears

Only someone that works out of choice not necessity is free, and only the elite are free. Anyone that has to work out of necessity or face living in the streets begging, they are not free.

Most living off the streets for very long do by choice, so they might be the freest of us all. BTW none of us are free by your definition even the rich.

BS. The ultra rich might 'not' be free because they're addicted to growing their bank account. But honestly say you have 100M dollar invested in dividend paying stocks. That's 1+M dollar dividend payments a year at ultra low tax rate, and it tends to grow year on year. Come come tell me exactly how someone with such a large diversified investment needs to work day in and day out out of necessity.

As for those living off the streets either they beg or scavenge the trash. That's a type of work in my book, and what they earn is miserly, while living exposed to the harsh environment and risking death and disease.

The laws are such, and the housing prices are such, that many not mentally ill are ending homeless against their will.

originally posted by: Xenogears


BS. The ultra rich might 'not' be free because they're addicted to growing their bank account. But honestly say you have 100M dollar invested in dividend paying stocks. That's 1+M dollar dividend payments a year at ultra low tax rate, and it tends to grow year on year. Come come tell me exactly how someone with such a large diversified investment needs to work day in and day out out of necessity.

Living free can be a easy or hard life. An ultra rich might as well be on Mars as far as we should be concern, so I'm not sure why you want to focus on them. Someone living off their daddy's 100 mil is not running a big company, under cutting pay etc, so once again who cares.

As for those living off the streets either they beg or scavenge the trash. That's a type of work in my book, and what they earn is miserly, while living exposed to the harsh environment and risking death and disease.

I live near Portland with lots of homeless, many have been there for years. Those that do that do so on purpose, those that are on the streets due to unfortunate events typically are not there very long. I agree they are a self employed worker...they are free to do as they wish...


When you talk freedom, man in general has not been truly free since the hunter gather period, once crops were invented all our freedoms vanished. Whether you work for a business 8 plus hours per day to buy food, or you work the fields for 8 plus hours per day to provide food is kind of the same thing. The difference is that living off the land is a MUCH harder job that takes tremulous amount more hours per week. Maybe someone working two full jobs seven days a week might come close to the effort of living "FREE" off the land is like.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Xtrozero

There's that talent thing we were talking about.

How can you call that talent, he plays the thing upside down...


Funny how both high IQ and high Talent seems many times to lead to a short life from depression.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Funny how both high IQ and high Talent seems many times to lead to a short life from depression.

Both of those lead to isolation, which in turn leads to depression. Talented individuals who suffer are definitely more noticeable, but part of me wonders how many more suffer without recognition. Is it unique to those positions, or just a defect in society?

In my thoughts, jobs that dont pay a living wage are a plague and burden upon society. If your business model cant pay someone working 40 hours a week for you with enough to put a roof over their head, food, and some measure of stability and hope for improvement, then it's a failed model. They make profit by shifting the cost of supporting their employees into the taxpayers. The amount of money that the federal government pays to subsidize low paying jobs is dragging all of us down. I now feel that jobs that dont pay a living wage should have to pay an extra "sweatshop tax" to make up for how much their company costs Medicaid and welfare.
Dont get me wrong, I understand that the monopoly of insurance gouging and workmans comp and such are part of the problem as well...... it all comes down to a common theme. Too many people want their hand between the workers productivity and the profits earned from it, all without wanting to have to partake in the work.