At least 84 people were shot in Chicago over the past week

a reply to: 3n19m470

Right, how does that solve the problem. For me, the way to solve a problem is to begin to understand it in depth. It is all too easy to just, like you point out, lay blame on some particular group or individuals. Rather than pointing fingers, understanding the causative socio-economic stresses is a good beginning.

Whether or not the problems of Chicago can be solved is problematical, however understanding those causative issues that have brought about modern day Chicago can hopefully allow better planning to avert other cities which have not yet reached those toxic urban conditions and avoid them before they too turn into more Chicago.

We need to eliminate "victim less" crime. Let them get high. stop being petty and help these poor people!

a reply to: Vroomfondel
Yes and no.

Back at the turn of the last century Chicago was as you point out majority white. Those slaughter houses sent out representatives to European countries looking for immigrants of poor to modest means stuck in the dead ends of the European economies who had the means to immigrate.
These immigrants in large part spoke English poorly and needed to congregate among st people of their own languages.

As each wave of nationally specific immigrants arrived to work in the ''houses'' they were then looked down upon by those who had arrived earlier from other countries. The successful of each wave would then prey upon the latter immigrants and so fourth.

Speaking overly simplistically, was the South turned into a dust bowl and the markets crashed in 29, people from the South migrated west and north. Like the immigrants from Europe before them these transplanted Americans congregated among people of their own origins.
The relative ''peace'' you speak of in the 60s among the majority white citizens was more peaceful than today. But even then there were ethnic communities that were at truce amongst themselves because they had one strong binding commonality. Black people were not allowed into the larger ''white'' community.

Southside Chicago, among other areas of what were known as ''black slums'' or ghettos were almost a demarcation line between the truce-full white and the impoverished blacks. The desegregation was not just in Chicago but rather a national move at that time.

And yes, it was liberals who brought it about. Christian liberals who believed that segregation was a sin, to hold any person or race to being a ''lower class'' was not what the teachings of Jesus had asked of us all.
However, as we should all know by now, those dreams of equality have been hard fought to realize. The politicians of both parties, those men who had gotten theirs, were ill put to really work to bring about the hoped for abolishment of racial lines and allowed the economic disparities to remain in place. in Chicago, those men had a big D after their names. In other cities they had a big R after their names.

Those D's and Rs only matter to those who still wish to defame one or the other.

Has anyone blamed these killings on white people yet?

People don't care because the media ignores it.

If the media plays up a police shooting anywhere, say Baltimore, then there's riots. If the media ignores the an identical shooting in South Dakota, no riot.

The sheeple go where the media tells them.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Edumakated

Per your own link - less than half of the murders have a known suspect. In other words, less than half the murders can be identified as having been committed by a gang. As I said in my response to your earlier post, they are assumed to be gang related due to their location but it is not confirmed.

Less than half of the murders have been cleared. Cleared is defined as perpetrator arrested and prosecuted, or, perpetrator known but not arrested for some reason. How can you claim any percentage above the number with positively identified perpetrators is accurate? Read the text more clearly. When they know for a fact it is very clear. When they are assuming or estimating it is also clear.

While I support concealed carry and gun rights, my point to you earlier was that it is disingenuous to use Chicago (or any other big city murder rates) as the reality is that the majority of crime committed really has no affect on the average person because that crime is highly concentrated in certain areas and among certain demographics. Put another way, a guy getting his CCW who lives on the North Shore because he hears about Chicago crime is not really understanding the dynamics of the crime occurring. The odds of that person being in Austin, Englewood or any of the other sh*tholes responsible for the high murder rate is slim to none (unless they are a drug addict). This is not to say there isn't some value in being armed just in case, but statistically the typical FOID card holder is not going to be anywhere near where most crime in Chicago occurs.

First, as I pointed out earlier, the crime is not staying in the districts where it originated. It is moving outward to the suburbs. Living outside of those neighborhoods does not make you safe from the crime that emanates from there. Second, why focus on the guy on the North Shore? Why not give the CCW to the guy in Austin, or Englewood where it will do some good? As it stands now the only people in those neighborhoods who have guns are the criminals. Level the playing field and see if things get better, worse, or stay the same. At least give the good guys a chance... As so many have pointed out in the past, not everyone who lives in those neighborhoods is a gang banger. Some of them are just decent people trying to get by. You take an unlikely event like a North Shore guy spending time in Austin or Englewood than criticize it for being so unlikely. Leave the North Shore out of it and give the CCW to someone who it may actually help. Though I would recommend giving a CCW to the North Shore guy also. It is just a matter of time until this crime reaches his neighborhood too.

All the clearance rate means is that they don't necessarily catch/convict the suspects, but they know the victims' affiliations. You don't need a clearance to know that a victim's death was gang related (or thug related if gang is too specific).

The police already know who is getting shot and doing the shooting. Chicago police department has a controversial database with all these thugs already in it as I stated before... the vast majority of victims and perpetrators are not strangers to law enforcement further proving my point of the vast majority being gang/thug shootings.

From the New York Times if you aren't familiar with the Strategic Subjects Lists...

Chicago PD Using Data to Predict Who and Will Get Shot

From the article:

In a city of 2.7 million people, about 1,400 are responsible for much of the violence, Mr. Johnson said, and all of them are on what the department calls its Strategic Subject List. So far this year, more than 70 percent of the people who have been shot in Chicago were on the list, according to the police, as were more than 80 percent of those arrested in connection with shootings.

Reread that... 70% of the people shot had already been identified by Chicago PD as a known thug. 80% of those arrested a known thug... already identified by police PRIOR to them even being shot or shooting.

I don't know why you have an issue with FACTS pointing out that the violence is mainly one thug shooting another thug. Tragic as it may be... it is a fact.

Again, I have no issue with an individual arming themselves. However, let's not pretend anyone in the burbs is really at high risk of being shot. Yes, it may occur, but it is statistically unlikely. All my point is if we are going to support gun rights, we need to be truthful. Libs are the ones who lie about data and stats to support their agenda.

a reply to: Edumakated

I get your point but by your definition anyone who has a prior is a "thug" and the equivalent of a gang banger. I respect your opinion but I have lived in and around this city for more than 50 years. I know what the CPD and the mayor says. I know what the news says. And I know what happens in my own neighborhood. Blaming it all on gangs is too easy. Gangs are a huge part of the problem, no doubt about it. But they aren't always responsible for the gun related violence.

The clearance aspect indicates whether the perpetrator is known or not. It does not make allowances for suspected gang affiliation. That is assumption, not fact. Per the CPD document you cited, clearance means either the perpetrator has been charged or they have enough evidence to charge someone but can not for some reason. That is not assumption based on gang affiliation. That is specific to an individual, and represents at least 50% of the recorded murders.

a reply to: Black_Fox

This is one of the things most likely contributing or causing this in Chicago. Lead in the water supply. Gasoline used to have lead in it and when it was removed violence levels everywhere went way down. The air had lots of lead because of car exhaust etc, I am not sure why but it is shown to make humans violent.

This is similar except it's in peoples drinking water.

how many of those deaths were black on black violence? just a thought to ponder while black lives matter touts its bull crap.

I hate to say it but I think most of the people in these areas are a lost cause.

might be able to save the younger ones but it would take a military action that would be a PR nightmare. So media would have to be legit first and a lot of corrupt officials would have to be thrown in jail. Then your talking sending in teams to take out gang leadership. After that a massive rebuildng effort with a rebute of law and order practices with clean LE leading the way. Then you have to get culture out of the gutter in these areas.

Your talking biblical effort here with chicago.

Personally I would just evacuate as many good people as possible.... wall it off and make it a prison. Then throw all the politicians in there and let the gangs hand out the justice.

What do you expect with parenting like this.

www.fox2detroit.com...

I'm 2 blocks north of Detroit city limit. I smoke outside and I hear gunshots all night long coming from across the border. Every store that stays open after dark in my area has been robbed.

Every time I go to the store late at night for smokes I have to worry about some gun toting idiot sticking a gun in my face.

They come over here commit crimes and run back to Detroit. The cops in my city are on the ball but they can't be everywhere at once.

a reply to: Black_Fox



Guns: most of the guns used in these killings were obtained illegally. Gunrunners, other sources, the border anyone?

Gangs/Rap: Nothing but negativity, but they became a moneymaker so it is not going to change anytime soon.

Fathers not being responsible/Mothers not being responsible. I have never heard of so many women just leaving their kids for a druggie lifestyle.

What ever happened to military schools? It’s just Juvenile detentionnow, which for most is just crime school (some learn), others get worse.

I think people care, but at the end of the day, it’s easier to let them kill themselves and not become a statistic yourself.