Is it foolish to dismiss religion as just superstition?

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

God is always present seeing what is present.

Yeah, eating popcorn watching children die of starvation.
GOD - "Oh, so your crops have failed, you pray to me for help, and I can help but choose to watch you die?"
STARVING CHILD - "Yes, please help us God"
GOD - "Nah, sorry mate, I may be omnipotent and omniscient, but I don't actually help people anymore, I gave up miracles 2000 years ago...but carry on praying if it makes you feel better"

I'd call any god like that an evil monster.

God is not someone who can do something............................God is simply seeing, witnessing.
There isn't anything other than what there is............so look and stay looking and you might find that God is none other than that which is looking.
Saint Francis of Assisi said 'We are looking for what is looking'.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
God is not someone who can do something............................God is simply seeing, witnessing.

Isn't seeing and witnessing something you can do?

People who are confident in what they believe don't need to resort to riddles.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
God is not someone who can do something

Urm...the Christian god allegedly used to be able to do things, think miracles, but suddenly decided to no longer help people just watch them suffer for the last 2000 years.
You can keep that monster of a god thanks, and until you can explain why your god decided to stop miracles and instead eat popcorn while watching people suffer then I'll condemn such an entity for as long as I live.

There is no excuse for an omnipotent and omniscient god to let his creation suffer.
I'm shocked that anyone these days has faith in such a cruel beast, never mind the lack of any evidence to support such crazy faith.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
There is no excuse for an omnipotent and omniscient god to let his creation suffer.

Yes there is.

Free will.

I don't believe a word of it but it's not true to say there is no excuse.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
Okay, no morally defensible reason.
I would argue morals all day with the Christian God...it is a cruel monster who decided to stop helping the suffering 2000 years ago.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Or even 3,000 years ago, or 4 or 20 or 200,000 years ago.

Actually, when was he helping the suffering in the first place for him to be able to stop it?

But it could just come down to Ying and Yang.
Without sadness happiness can't exist.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
I don't believe any of it mate, I'm just going on the claims of miracles which religious folk go on about, you know, those miracles which nobody sees anymore.
If 'God' was able to perform miracles back in the day then suddenly decided to stop, and instead just watches it's believers suffer even when they pray to it, then that god is a beast who deserves no love or faith from me.

Unless any god can explain to me why it ignores suffering innocents these days then that god will be shunned by any morally inspired, rational thinking person.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

To be honest I find the idea of a god who does good to people who pray far, far worse than one that ignores prayer.

But I've gotta say I'm confused why you want to shun god.
Do you feel the same animosity toward the tooth fairy and Fred Flintstone?

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
Isn't seeing and witnessing something you can do?

No.........seeing and witnessing IS happening.
You might believe that there is a 'you' that 'does' seeing, however, seeing and witnessing are happening regardless of what thought says....in fact if thought says something, it is seen/heard/witnessed as it appears/occurs.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
Lol, I put gods in the same bracket as pixies and the tooth fairy.
I was speaking hypothetically.
Of course I would shun the god which Christians claim to exist.
...I don't know anyone who claims the tooth fairy exists though, do you?

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
There is no excuse for an omnipotent and omniscient god to let his creation suffer.

Yes there is.

Free will.

I don't believe a word of it but it's not true to say there is no excuse.

so out of curiosity, lets say that we collectively use our free will to exercise a democratic process and impeach this omnipotent and omniscient god for neglect and misuse of its sovereign duties. replace the theocratic balance of powers with a constitutional government that respects the inalienable rights of its citizens instead of owning us like commodities. if there is no excuse for god, there is no excuse for us. viva la revolucion.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
God is not someone who can do something............................God is simply seeing, witnessing.

Isn't seeing and witnessing something you can do?

People who are confident in what they believe don't need to resort to riddles.

Yes, and that is exactly the point.
I think it was Deepak Chopra who commented that we are each a pair of God's eyes.
That is utterly consistent with the Vedic view that each of us has a core consciousness that is not different between individuals. IE My core sense of I am (which is the only part of me that never changes- it can be obscured or allowed to emerge) is EXACTLY the same as yours- and that consciousness is what is referred to as "God".
The same sort of thing was said by many Christian mystics.


As for resorting to riddles- the Taoist analysis makes it plain that metaconcepts like "God" are beyond verbal description.
Hence the Buddha's decision to keep a noble silence on the subject. That was done simply because it is not possible to address the matter of "God" with a verbal concept- regardless of what the fundamentalists of any religion attempt to do.

I have often said, when looking for an amusing fight: "Define me your God, if your definition is precise enough to be useful, I will refute it- using the terms of your definition.

Nagarjuna, one of the greatest figures in Buddhism, sometimes called the second Buddha, wrote extensively on the inadequacy of language for understanding topics such as emptiness. Virtually all of his work was through refutation "not this, not this for thousands of pages.

So when we come to any deeper concept, whatever we say will miss the mark.
That is why speaking in riddles is essential-- to open space.

As the Tao te Ching says:

He who speaks,
Knows not.
He who knows,
speaks not.

Simply because he who knows the ultimate nature of reality, also knows that words are not enough for the task. He knows that if he opened his mouth he would only mislead.



www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: JimNasium

One flew over the cuckoo's nest.

Look up, there I go...

Where you at man?

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Unless any god can explain to me why it ignores suffering innocents these days then that god will be shunned by any morally inspired, rational thinking person.

Sadly, many use the issue of suffering as an excuse to reject any thought of God, when its existence is the very reason we should accept Him.

Suffering is of a human origin, not Gods...

Any morally inspired or rational thinking person ought to be able to figure that one out without any divine revelation.

Ask God to show you what hell is really like and if He answers that prayer, I personally guarantee that you will never again think that God ignores suffering innocents

“God has tried to get through to us…. We have been a big disappointment to God because we have just consistently refused to listen to God.”

“As a pastor, people say ‘why does God allow this [evil]…. That question is predicated on a false assumption. God doesn’t want any of these things to happen. It’s all against God’s will. It’s our perverse nature, our sinful nature that allows these things to happen, that causes these things to happen. If we were following God’s will they wouldn’t be happening.

So we tend to ascribe to God all of the bad things that happen, and take responsibility for the good things that happen, when in reality it’s just the opposite.

God wants us to live in harmony with one another and in harmony with the creation. And the conflict and suffering we are experiencing in this world is of a human origin, not originated by God.

When Jesus came into the world it was a great opportunity for the whole world to find a new way of living and interacting with one another. And we all have failed.

And I would lay the greatest responsibility upon Christianity itself…. They were the ones that were given the clear transmission of what God’s desire was.

God is unhappy with humankind, unhappy with the way the world is going, unhappy with the way God’s beautiful creation is being treated. And God is intervening in a very direct way in the world today. And God and the angels are about trying to promote a spiritual awakening.”

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
We adopt whatever works for us, or at least, what we think works for us. Love JP... come to think of it, even the atheists' rejection of it is a profound negative influence on them.