How do we know what we think we know?

a reply to: intrptr

I understand your reasoning and perspective.

Thankfully, I'm not awash in that much cynicism.

But there is plenty to be cynical about in our era.

a reply to: BO XIAN

BTW, slightly off topic.

I'd be willing to help the first 3 people who asked for my help with the grid mentioned above and here:

webgrid.uvic.ca...

I'd just ask that you have ready and comfortable access to a professional counselor if there's any likelihood of significant traumas or conflicts in the relationships sorted.

a reply to: BO XIAN

From what I hear is that a black hole could happen at any time. It will restart life and we'll forget about this life. It's a cycle

a reply to: luciferslight

That's one interpretation of 'reality.'

I think that is a . . . carefully engineered . . . what . . . deception.

imho, of course.

a reply to: BO XIAN
its not cynicism, more like skepticism. I know you are familiar with Plato's Cave, everything we think we know in there is shadows dancing in firelight on the cave wall.

Or Carlin who said, "I don't believe anything my government tells me, anything."

The older I get the more I agree.

Lastly, my signature.

a reply to: intrptr

INDEED. Yeah, Read Plato in Senior year of High School in the "Advanced English" class. Loved it. I realize that he's not all wonderful but it was a very educational experience about perspective and . . . uhhh . . . experience.

Agreed . . . Carlin and government. Maybe not 100% as absolutist as that but durn near it.

Love your signature. Though I'd say that we are all on a continuum. None of us are at 100% askew from 'reality' and none of us are 100% congruent with 'reality.'

However, those perspectives in our era are rather wedded to the notion that there is NO SUCH THING

as TRUTH. . . . or even reality as many think . . .

And on the issue of TRUTH, I disagree fiercely.

On the issue of reality . . . I don't think we can very well know what this dimension of reality REALLY 100% is in all it's factors, permutations and implications.

At least not in our mortal lifetimes.

imho.

a reply to: BO XIAN

No problem. On truth, the truth isn't like absolutes, more like what is the truth of events, what should we do? How do we see that? We are shown.

Was it Socrates said, he sees his thoughts on a 'blackboard' in his mind and a light from (outside himself) shines on the words revealing the truth of, something, some question, some event? What to do, how to behave, etc.

If I'm describing that correctly, a belief that wisdom to know the truth of things comes from outside us, through the conduit of our soul. If / when we are tuned to that, an answer can be determined.

I agree, we only see a finite bit of the whole wth our senses. Thats here and now, our future after we pass, transcends our three D perspective. From here and now to everywhere and every when, if that makes sense.

a reply to: intrptr

Yes.

I THINK

I Grok it. LOL.

Well put.

One or both of us must be ill. We are agreeing farrr to much with one another recently!

a reply to: BO XIAN

Nothing wrong with that. We're human.

But I get the disclaimer, people usually make that when agreeing wth me.

I'm kind of direct and blunt if I see an injustice or falsehood.

Rockin the world.

a reply to: intrptr

Of course, I'VE

NEVER

been accused of being blunt or sarcastic!

LOLOLOL

/sarc

a reply to: BO XIAN

Nothing like a person that knows they are right and keeps on a comin'.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: intrptr

I understand your reasoning and perspective.

Thankfully, I'm not awash in that much cynicism.

But there is plenty to be cynical about in our era.

how do YOU know what you think you know?

a reply to: intrptr

Pondering . . .

I probably use the hypothesis testing Greek method 70-85% and the immersive Hebrew knowing 15-30% to determine what I then consider mostly true to true.

A lot of things I hold loosely as probably true and await more solid confirmation.

A lot of things I've found true over the decades from experience.

Philosophically, spiritually, I reached a point of despair in a 5+ year long dark night of the soul after my divorce where I didn't know much. I still believed that God was real and mostly that the Bible was His authentic Word . . . but that was about it. I had to build what I believed back step by step. Thankfully, God is well up to the task of showing HImself real in the lives of those who truly SEEK HIM.

As Kelly above with role construct theory and his grid process . . . the map and cluster chart of one's constructs has implications for predictability of one's construct system regarding life realities. Mine has been pretty robust and mostly accurate the last 40 years.

I also am keen about what works. If something doesn't work, it at least tends to go to the bottom of the pile if not in the trash.

And, I hate religious hypocrisy, sham, hokey stuff. I give a lot of grace for being human. I'm human. I'm not 100% free of such flaws 100% of the time. But repeated trashy stuff arrogantly and overtly displayed by religious leaders . . . not a pretty thing. I'm likely to speak up about it. I've gotten the left boot of fellowship more than a time or 3.

Some things I JUST KNOW. I've JUST KNOWN--I believe via Holy Spirit--when a number of people were going to die. I was leaving for a trip to visit a number of friends from the midwest and down through TX etc. I knew that it would be the last time I'd see my mother. She had Alzheimer's but had no signs of impending death. She died while I was on the trip.

Another time, I was walking back from the toilet at a Sonday service and passed an elderly but seemingly fit enough stalwart in the church. I heard an inner voice say it would be the last time I saw him. He was killed in a logging accident the next week.

That kind of JUST KNOWING tends to come unbidden into my awareness--sometimes with a "still small voice" and sometimes it's just a KNOWING. When the impression is above a certain level of intensity, I've always found it to be ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND TO COME TO PASS 100% of the time.

An AofG Presbyter/Pastor in my Univ town was involved in the suicide of a college student, a guy--told him he'd follow up and chat with him again, never did. 6 months later, the bloke blew his brains out. I was furious. I prayed very earnestly that God would 1) change the Pastor or 2) move him away or 3) take him home to Heaven out of this life--within a year. I had a knowing confidence within, as I prayed that something significant among those options would happen. Within a year, he was moved and within a year he and his wife were dead.

I've very rarely had a confidence, faith of great intensity that a given prayer would be answered . . . and such was the case in at least a handful of cases.

I've seen a miracle or two on the farm growing up as I've stated hereon at other times . . . raining on 4 sides of a field of drying hay but not on the hay. Etc.

a reply to: BO XIAN

That kind of JUST KNOWING tends to come unbidden into my awareness--sometimes with a "still small voice" and sometimes it's just a KNOWING. When the impression is above a certain level of intensity, I've always found it to be ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND TO COME TO PASS 100% of the time.

but have you tested this gift of yours in a controlled environment? so as to isolate the source and dimensions of your KNOWING? seems premature to conclude that there is a theological element to your 'talents'. have to say, wishing a fellow christian would die strikes me as a little dark. praying for it even more so.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Not when TRUSTING A GOD OF LOVE

to choose one of the 3 options best for all concerned from HIS perspective of omniscience and love.

However, I think we both know that no answer of mine would receive less than some contrarian criticism from you.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Not when TRUSTING A GOD OF LOVE

to choose one of the 3 options best for all concerned from HIS perspective of omniscience and love.

seems a little presumptuous to ask an omniscient entity for anything, for it assumes two things. they forgot about you, or they made an error in judgment. which seems more likely?

However, I think we both know that no answer of mine would receive less than some contrarian criticism from you.

maybe you could pray for some KNOWING for me.

a reply to: TzarChasm

1. NOT WHEN

HE has CHOSEN to include His favorite intelligent creation, creatures

IN THE DANCE HE has chosen to engage in with us . . .

part of which includes dialogue with HIM, e.g. prayer . . . that . . .

subject to:

--His priorities
--Wisdom
etc. He chooses to respond to in His ways, in His time . . . but often startlingly specific to the tiniest detail . . . as He DELIGHTS to give good gifts to His snotty nosed kids.

It would be PRESUMPTUOUS TO REFUSE to comply with His request for the dialogue and to make our requests known to Him. Sure, He knows.

But He has CHOSEN to relate to us in an intimate RELATIONSHIP, a dance, wherein we confide in Him.

2. I'd be delighted to ask Him to make Himself more overtly KNOWN to you--at least knowable to you--particularly if your request is sincere. But I'll mention it to Him as often as He brings you to mind.

And, more, I'll expect Him to respond in your life. I have no idea of how or the timing. And, likely, there will still be wiggle room for you to deny that He has responded. Yet, there will also likely be some curiosities that you have not confronted in your life, heretofore.

Thanks for the honor of your request.

I do suggest that you AVOID to the point of death, taking the MARK OF THE BEAST chip implant.