Bernie, The Birdie and the Pope....

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: MountainLaurel

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: MountainLaurel

I'm curious about "corporate greed".

Is it illegal to be greedy?

Nope it's not illegal to be greedy, but it is illegal, not to mention unethical, to use "bribery" to influence public policy . White collar criminals have circumvented the Law, certainly the Spirit of the Law.

So you think the policy makers are going to punish the people that bribed the same policy makers that you want to punish those that bribe the policy makers?

I think we need to vote in honest policy makers, and Bernie's just the tip of the ice-berg, we have an opportunity to vote out over 80% of Congress and that's what we need to do ! I want term limits for both houses of Congress and I want Citizens United over turned.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

You want a new batch of Supremes and a new congress.

Bernie will just tax folks more and keep the status quo.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

Could you cite the source? I checked and found your statement inaccurate.

www.cnn.com...

www.nbcnews.com...

I would suggest to read the book 'Propaganda' by Edward Bernays. This isn't some plan slapped together at the last minute, it is calculated and methodical.

a reply to: GodEmperor

I'm not sure what your referring to as being inaccurate ? Can you please elaborate?

I am familiar with Bernay's work and how his "marketing" methods changed American politics. I suppose it's possible everything about Bernie is a "calculated and methodical plan" .....I am a conspiracy theorist after all...

I guess that's why I'm looking or hoping for "signs" that he is the Honorable Man I believe him to be. Time will tell, and I'll check out the book you suggested..TY...

a reply to: MountainLaurel

Bernie's meeting the Pope and all we hear is how he SHOULD be campaigning in NY !

I was referring to that statement. That inaccuracy changes the whole paradigm, does it not? Because all the MSM has been talking about is Bernie meeting the pope, not the other way around.

I have a feeling you aren't reading the links I've posted.

Actually, in 1985, Sanders partnered with developers to champion a seven-story hotel and 300 mostly upscale condominiums on the land we were standing on. The city was to get a cut of the profits through a tax increment financing (TIF) district. Fortunately, activists mobilized an opposition to this giveaway of public land to the wealthy, and the plan was defeated in a citywide referendum. That's why there was a beautiful park to serve as the backdrop for Sanders to launch his campaign. This story is emblematic of Sanders' political history. While he says many good things that socialists support and that attract support from workers, students and the left, his actual political practice is at odds with his image. Setting aside his self-identification as a "socialist," even his claim to be "independent" is dubious once you know about Sanders' accommodations with business and the wealthy and his ongoing collaboration with the Democratic Party.
oilempire.us...

Everything he has promised would total around 18 trillion in extra spending, that is unrealistic, therefore a lie. He is like any other politician, lying to you, and no matter what I or anyone else says, you will believe the lies.

a reply to: GodEmperor

I have read your links, and it's very interesting to me how differently we both seem to sincerely see things so much differently.

I never said Bernie meeting the Pope was not covered on MSM, my point is the way the story was covered carried a negative narrative that he was somehow neglecting his campaign duties in NY because he choose to attend the Conference at the Vatican. I agree the whole paradigm of this story was influenced by the MSM.

As for Bernie partnering with Developers to build a Hotel and 300 ( mostly, what does that mean? ) upscale condos , why is that so bad ? The Hotel would have generated 100's of local jobs, generate tax dollars for the city and create 300 new homes, creating even more local jobs to build them ! At the end of the day, the people in that community decided they would rather have a park and stopped the project. We didn't see Bernie bribing government officials or trying to take the power out of the city to decide. Gezz Bernie just can't win with people who want to condemn him for being anti-business and also want to point out that he has in the past worked with business. I also find this 30 year old story grasping at straws to tarnish Bernie's pretty darn clean record in Politics.

I'm obviously very disappointed about how NY's primary went down. I am REALLY trying to watch the news coverage with an open mind and take off my "Bernie" glasses and look at the results objectively, but I have observed so much blatant bias toward Hillary ,I'm pretty sure this is a "conspiracy" .

The news coverage yesterday was shamefully stacked against Bernie, here are a few examples I noticed.

1. Interview on MSNBC were they had a Hillary supporter there "pushing" her agenda , but being told that they also asked a member of the Sander's campaign to participate in the interview, BUT because the Sander's camp responded at the "last minute" they wanted to participate they were "unable" to accommodate them !? Seriously ???? Not only did they exclude Bernie's camp, they also implied it was because the Sander's camp somehow "flaked out" on the interview ?

2. They had a segment where they had reporters out asking people how they were voting.....the 1st 2 people they showed were Bernie supporters who were deciding at the last minute to switch to Hillary...."because she has so much more experience"......they were both also blue collar workers of color...break to commercial....this was yesterday morning before I had to leave, so I don't know if they ever interviewed any Bernie supporters.

3. "The Democratic campaign has been very nasty, and that Bernie is hitting below the belt by accusing Hillary's camp of election and finance fraud" How they managed to spin that one to somehow make Bernie look bad was incredible really ! A month ago this was being hailed as a very respectful race, and I don't think bringing light to what was clearly a problem with voters being out right denied the right to vote because of some bizarre sort of computer "clinch" that knocked out thousands of eligible Democratic voters is disrespectful to anyone except those people denied the right to vote fairly....they won't even play by their own messed up rules now !

4. Last but not least, the incredible "guilt trip" being put on Sander's supporters to unify with Hillary now.....nope, they miscalculated this one.

I'll end by saying this, a campaign "promise" or more accurately "goal" is not a lie...it's a vision......and if Bernie could get everything done, which we all know he can't alone...it would still cost less then the Iraq "invasion" and the profits made there by Halliburton and the rest of the scum involved.

ty for your perspective, but yeah, unlikely we'll ever find common ground here...hagd ...

a reply to: MountainLaurel

So, you believe that a corrupt government should be given more power of the lives of people?

Bernie Sanders calls himself a democratic socialist, a term coined by Vladimir Lenin, who went on to kill millions of people.

You may think socialism is amazing, and would point to how it works in Europe. The only reason it 'works' in Europe is due to the fact Europe has the US to protect them militarily. Those social programs wouldn't be feasible if Europe had to protect themselves.

Bernie is a fool, his ideology is stupid, and would be devastating.

Hillary/Cruz are funded by Goldman Sachs, I will not vote for either of these two; especially Hillary she is a blatant criminal. Trump is a Hitleresque demagogue, who is a symptom of the discontent in this country, people don't realize that when the nation goes too far into the liberal la-la land, the Reactionaries come swinging in twice as hard as the 'Revolutionaries'.

It doesn't really matter which politician you put in, even Bernie. We are headed towards a Global Scientific Dictatorship, due to the advent of technology and the fascist ideology America incorporated after Project Paperclip, it is guaranteed every aspect of human activity will be monitored and controlled.

This election is about doing away with the checks against mob rule, America will see how 'unfair' the election process is, and demand a more Direct Democracy, so policies will be decided by the whims of the uneducated who are manipulated by corporate/political thinktanks.

a reply to: GodEmperor

So your point is because we spend so much money on the military abroad we don't have the ability to also pay for America's social needs? I agree actually....but probably for different reasons.

Look, you didn't directly comment on one point I have made....I really made an effort to respond to your points and links directly , as you asked.

If you believe legally rigged elections and biased media coverage is the way to "prevent" the "whims of the mob" you sorely underestimate your fellow man.....anyways, It's unlikely someone who is "gas-lighting" and avoiding the issues will engage in a reasonable conversation.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

I don't believe that is the way to go, when did I say that?

There is no way to change that. No mass movement, nothing.

What do you think will happen, if millions of people threaten the power and hegemony of those who have that power?

Millions of people die.

I would like to hear, what plan there is to end corruption and rigged elections.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

I should clarify some things, you need to understand my perspective to know where I am coming from.

This is how I see our current system, and putting my faith in any man or woman will be a let down; every choice we have ever had was a demagogue.

A system based on infinite growth on a finite planet, cannot sustain itself, and will collapse. To delay this process, while implementing a transitional system, the are two necessary steps being undertaken. The first is expansionary warfare over dwindling resources, we can see this looking at the chaos in the Middle East, and the encroachment of the West on the East; essentially will culminate in world war. The second step, the one we are more keenly aware of, is the erosion of civil liberties, in order to quell domestic unrest during economic/societal collapse. The end goal, is to create a Global Scientific Dictatorship, the only quest is who will be in charge of this global system.

The world is cruel, there is no bright light at the end of the road, niceties and trinkets does not remove us from the jungle, our evolutionary path has fooled most into believing we live in a civilized world. Evolution does not take place because of peace and tranquility, evolution occurs because of the pressures of the world around us, we evolve to become better killers first. Look at the world we live in now, most of the technology was only possible due to the horrors the Nazi scientists committed, people may look at technology as a blessing; it is not. Technology only enables those with access to it, to rule over those who do not.

At some point in time, the majority of the people will have no clue as to how technology works, the rulers of this world will control the highest levels of technology; and it only takes one generation to lose our knowledge of science; and the masses will believe these rulers to be gods.

Any man or woman you put faith in, is false hope. No matter how good Bernie is, there is no chance for him to be president, even he did become president, nothing he does will change anything; it is Congress who passes the laws, and whatever the title of a bill says, it is muddled with thousands of pages of legal jargon that usually result in the opposite of the intended outcome.

a reply to: GodEmperor

The plan is to do exactly what Sander's and Trump, for that matter, are doing....bring it to the light of day and force a change. Are you saying that our only choice is to be slaughtered by the millions if we don't comply?

Maybe we could use the "skills" of the those fighting the "War on Drugs" to declare a "War on Corrupt politicians and corporations"...you know, NO Knock warrants, surveillance, under cover agents, seizure of property if wrong doing is even suspected !

a reply to: MountainLaurel

The plan is to do exactly what Sander's and Trump, for that matter, are doing....bring it to the light of day and force a change.

Force a change? How? Use of force? Revolutions are how dictatorships are formed, thanks to twitter and facebook it is a simple matter for a handful of operatives to create and direct entire movements. These two are on the rise because of anger and discontent, the level of violence is on the rise, and it will be quelled with ease. That path leads to millions of dead, is the cost acceptable to you?

Maybe we could use the "skills" of the those fighting the "War on Drugs" to declare a "War on Corrupt politicians and corporations"...you know, NO Knock warrants, surveillance, under cover agents, seizure of property if wrong doing is even suspected

Wishful thinking. This is part of the second prerequisite of the Global Scientific Dictatorship, an erosion of civil liberties. The last bastion of American freedom will eventually fall, the second amendment, and by that time after these violent populist movements, total control of our lives will be heralded in.