Tim Cook: Apple Won’t Create “Backdoor” To Unlock San Bernardino Attacker’s iPhone

a reply to: angeldoll

Liberty is not a scale. It is binary.

You either have it, or you do not. It is not divisible, or capable of being fractionalised. It is a single thing unto itself, or it is nothing.

originally posted by: jefwane
a reply to: Christosterone
Are services like BBE unable to unlock a user locked phone?

Wiping the device is easy enough. Getting the data off is a bit harder.

The device has to be set in 'supervised' mode from set up, you can't do it after the fact without unlocking. There are also some settings you would have to configure in that too. If the screen is locked, and VPN / wireless /mobile data isn't forced on then it can be a pain. Apple's suite also leaves a lot to be desired for big businesses but it has some monitoring etc ...

One of the most common approaches for a while has been to brute force the password using pware or a black box. Newer i-devices are a pain.

Unfortunately in a commercial society forcing Apple to do this could cause 'undue hardship' it could be argued.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: ReadLeader
it needs to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis with the proper authorizations in place to protect the end user customer as well as the victims of crimes - there should not be a blanket law that ultimately usurps my privacy

Issue is a lot of forensic outfits are commercial. If there is a loop hole they will find it and exploit the hell out of it.

Case by case often leaves too much interpretation. Tight (including some current) blanket laws let people get away with murder because a chain of custody was broken for twelve minutes and the judge was drinking at lunch. Tight mostly helps the rich I find.

originally posted by: BelowLowAnnouncement
a reply to: ReadLeader
I sometimes, at my most paranoid moments, feel like these kind of public displays are all part of the pony show. Look at what we could have here:

The FBI pretend they need a backdoor - they already have it, now the public thinks they still need it.

I'm fairly positive they don't. If they do it's likely some other agency or entity controls it.

FBI like many other public facing law agencies contract out to civilian forensic consultants. No need for this if Apple are building back doors for them.

a reply to: ReadLeader

I would hope that if a subpoena is received to unlock that particular phone, they would comply, but I don't think they should hand over a backdoor to open anyone's phone/files at will without a warrant/subpoena/whatever appropriate document/order is necessary.

originally posted by: ReadLeader
So, basically the head cheese @ Apple is ultimately asking the customers opinions about the latest request from the FBI. The FBI WANTS Apple to create a back door into the new iPhone.

This will/would (although the software does not exist to this day so THEY say) have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.

In other words, Apple is drawing the line, to protect the privacy of its valued clientele.

So, the question is, do they, or don't they? Is it going to far? If it is, look at the San Bernardino investigation... yea/neh? What say you ATS?

Apple CEO Tim Cook has posted an open letter to Apple customers announcing that the company would oppose an order from a U.S. Federal judge to help the FBI access data on an iPhone 5c used by San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook. Cook says that this moment is one for public discussion, and that the company wants its customers to understand what's at stake.

Cook starts the letter noting that smartphones have become an essential part of people's lives and that many people store private conversations, photos, music, notes, calendars and both financial and health information on their devices. Ultimately, Cook says, encryption helps keep people's data safe, which in turn keeps people's personal safety from being at risk.

He then goes on to say that Apple and its employees were "shocked and outraged" by the San Bernardino attack and that Apple has complied with valid subpoenas and search warrants from federal investigators. Apple has also made engineers available to advise the FBI in addition to providing general advice on how they could go about investigating the case. However, Cook says that's where Apple will draw the line.

L I N K

But they won't fix error 53 for their "valued customers" so all this is from Tim Crook is smoke, mirrors and BS.

Cheers - Dave

I dont understand this story. We have already been told that the NSA has programs that can crack any apple phone(or any other phone with 4 digit security) in a matter of days (input code if fails reset phone before it locks itself due to incorrect input) rinse and repeat.

More bull# headlines. Its really starting to stink here.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: angeldoll

Liberty is not a scale. It is binary.

You either have it, or you do not. It is not divisible, or capable of being fractionalised. It is a single thing unto itself, or it is nothing.

That's simply not true. You say, "you would like to have a sword to carry with you wherever you go". And yet you don't because it's not permissible in your country. Is your liberty being compromised? Yes? Then would you rather be dead than to relinquish the sword?

Am I willing to take a bullet from airport security because I don't want my bags checked?

It is not black or white. There are indeed reasonable in be tweens, which are called laws, and they serve a purpose.

This doesn't make sense to me. They want Apple to somehow make the phone NOT delete the data after so many failed attempts. So are they putting the guys dogs name in the front with their fingers, and "oh crap, 9 tries left"?

They haven't taken the phone apart yet? This should be a non-issue.

First step is let the battery die. Disassemble the phone. (you don't lose any data replacing the screen, right? )
Remove storage and block level copy it. (apple can help with THIS)
Put copy in special recovery phone, and try all you want. (this is where the crap left in their apt would come in handy)

It would seem to me that making an "image" of the encrypted data should be possible and is step #1 in data recovery.
And they know this, so the whole "Apple won't help us" story is BS. Probably they already got the data, and this is to make someone think they CANT GET IT. Big news, Apple says "Sorry, couldn't if we wanted to" and "something" they saw on the phone is still a secret as far as "Someone" knows.

originally posted by: SolRozenberg
Put copy in special recovery phone, and try all you want. (this is where the crap left in their apt would come in handy)

Each Apple Phone (current gen) has a unique device ID which is tied to that device's encryption. The UID isn't recorded anywhere, not even by the manufacturer. It's also inaccessible at a user level and they're also encrypted. If you moved your storage into a new phone it simply wouldn't be able to read the datas.

Even if you have the phone unlocked you can only acquire a logical image (only the allocated space) you can't get a physical image of the entire storage to recover deleted files or anything of that nature. Even if you could, Apple's storage firmware has got more efficient at garbage clean up making the actual recovery of the 1's and 0's a pain in the butt.

It is possible to do some brute forcing, but they made the pin longer.

Short version is, it's really hard. Current practice with the iWatch for example is to leave it on the dead person's wrist till forensics arrives.

????

It's so easy to get the password of an iDevice. My friend forgot her iPod password some time ago. With the help of some software I was able to retrieve the password.

There's no need for Apple to create a back door when you can simply hack into the phone.

The FBI has all the resource necessary to crack into an iPhone.

a reply to: ReadLeader

Ok, let's start with this (for those that are abundant of uninformed opinions, but too lazy to read the link):

"The government suggests this tool could only be used once, on one phone. But that’s simply not true. Once created, the technique could be used over and over again, on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks — from restaurants and banks to stores and homes. No reasonable person would find that acceptable."

To dumb it down, your government has asked for iPhone software (a special iOS version) that looks and feels like the real deal, but it has no security features. With the software in their possession, they can install it in their labs, at their will, on any Apple device (not just iPhone) and get to the contents. They didn't ask for a once off sneak peak, they are ordering a master key to use at their own leisure.

Perhaps a master key already exists and this is a (bizare) publicity stunt for your government and for Apple ... I am not going to try and convince you of Apple's ingrained anti-establishment company culture. But do consider the following ...

Ps: Before you do, put your conspiracy hat on backwards ... Now, consider the other alternative: a master key doesn't exist and this is actually genuine ... and YOU have the power to stop it from happening. What would you do?

I know damn well what you would do if you're a dis-informant and you're discouraging people from acting on this.

Aren't you gifted. a reply to: Kuroodo

As I said in another thread. They don't need a backdoor. Even your local police have forensic software that can get into your phone. Even supposedly iOS9.

Psyop or public relations media blitz. Take your pick. The fact Google is onboard now just furthers the psyop theory, as Google is acts as a diplomatic backchannel for the US State Department. Look into "Google Ideas" sometime and its connection to the Council on Foreign Relations.

Here is an article which mentions the firmware mods the FBI wants.

As another here mentioned, it is a firmware mod. It removes the delay between tries and disk wipe security. They are also asking for an automated method (non touch screen) for entering the pin. Basically making for an easy brute force.

Also is mentioned that it can be tied to the particular phone to prevent it from being as universal tool.

Link

As always, once something like this is done, the future becomes foggy. I can't help but believe encryption will become illegal. Big brother must be able to snoop.

I was watching CNN the other night and this spokesman for the NJ PD said that they currently have 297 of these phones in their evidence room. He says that a lot of Police Agencies around the country are following this very closely, because if the Feds do win, they'll all want the same treatment and get the phones in their possessions unlocked as well.

What are your thoughts on this? Should Apple comply? What is going on?

This makes me wonder if Apple are the ones trying to hide something. That if the Feds saw the nuts and bolts of the tech used for these phones, that Apple would be in deep crap or something. Perhaps Apple is spying on its users? Who knows. But something doesn't smell right about this entire thing all the way around. I'm not siding with either one right now.....

Could the Feds be trying to out Apple for some unknown reason? Could this be a power play of some kind?

Also, you cannot tell me that our FBI, Government, NSA, CIA et al don't have the hackers to get into these phones. I bet they already have the information off of it, but they are continuing to push Apple on this situation.

They just want Apple to remove the erase feature from the security setup on the phone so they( the FBI) could run some powerful software to get the id without erasing the data

Entering the phone and the encryption are two different things. Also as someone mentioned, there is a ID embedded in a chip, part of the AES encryption engine, that is unique to the phone. it is claimed that the ID is not tracked outside the phone. it is needed for decryption. It's only known to the engine.

FBI just offer 10 million for a backdoor. Someone will do it.

This is not for the Software, it is for the legal precedent. Nothing more. The software is the "excuse", there is not a thing on this Phone the FBI don't already know .

The Government wants a legal precedent to bypass encryption. It cannot get a law passed to outlaw it so why not just make it so the creators have to make a bypass or BACKDOOR. You don't HAVE to it's not a law or nothing until the Courts COMPEL you to!!

This affects anything that can be electronically encrypted!

They came for the iphone and I had android.........

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Liberty is not a scale. It is binary.

You either have it, or you do not. It is not divisible, or capable of being fractionalised. It is a single thing unto itself, or it is nothing.

You're regularly in the habit of conflating freedom and liberty. What you call liberty above is freedom. Alone on an island, you can say whatever you want so you have freedom of speech, but you are not at liberty to talk to anyone. Liberty actually is the one that you can add up the practical measures of to take stock of it all, whereas freedom is the binary free/not free.

Sorry to be that guy, but this isn't the first time I've noticed you doing it, and you seem to care about this sort of thing, or I wouldn't bother.

a reply to: 11andrew34

That may be true, but the reason I use those terms so interchangeably is that the number of circumstances where one has freedom but no Liberty is ridiculously small. It most other cases, if one has one of these things, one has access to both.