African American Names!!

a reply to: JadeStar

There's another problem here, though. If you look at a lot of the other posts in this thread, you'll notice that the closed minded people don't let the African Americans even know they're being discriminated against. People in this thread are saying they see the name then instantly throw out the application, no explanation given to the applicant. Or they see the names in the newspaper or on classroom attendance figures and mock them to themselves. They literally had to come on an anonymous online forum to "vent" about the "problem".

So why would we even think our names are "problems" if the closed minded people are too scared to say it to our faces? I love my name & would never change it. But nobody's said anything about it since I was a child, either. So I have the perception that people grew up & don't judge people off of silly stuff like that anymore, when the reality is apparently very different.

ps I'm not saying this in a negative way towards you. I'm just pointing out that apparently these people don't even tell the people with "offensive/stereotypical" names they have a problem with it.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: JadeStar

There's another problem here, though. If you look at a lot of the other posts in this thread, you'll notice that the closed minded people don't let the African Americans even know they're being discriminated against. People in this thread are saying they see the name then instantly throw out the application, no explanation given to the applicant. Or they see the names in the newspaper or on classroom attendance figures and mock them to themselves. They literally had to come on an anonymous online forum to "vent" about the "problem".

So why would we even think our names are "problems" if the closed minded people are too scared to say it to our faces? I love my name & would never change it. But nobody's said anything about it since I was a child, either. So I have the perception that people grew up & don't judge people off of silly stuff like that anymore, when the reality is apparently very different.

ps I'm not saying this in a negative way towards you. I'm just pointing out that apparently these people don't even tell the people with "offensive/stereotypical" names they have a problem with it.

I should have named the thread "ghetto names". Since "ghetto" whites and Hispanics both do the same.

Oh, and I absolutely do.... :p. hell we did the whole "confederate flag debate" all day at work....in MS. I'm pretty up front about the fact I'm an "evolution guy" and that race is 100% a man made creation. Genetics doesn't back it up. Having crap jobs and growing up poor in mississippi has left me with just as many black friends as white. They know where I'm coming from with these types of debates. I'm all logic and quick to stand corrected.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: JadeStar

There's another problem here, though. If you look at a lot of the other posts in this thread, you'll notice that the closed minded people don't let the African Americans even know they're being discriminated against. People in this thread are saying they see the name then instantly throw out the application, no explanation given to the applicant.

And they think that's right? So like being racist is some kind of badge of honor?


The problem is not with "black names" nor with "black people" but with people who discount them before giving them a fair shot. Oh well, their loss, they probably miss out on some great applicants.

But seriously. It's 2015. You know, the same argument that is used against things like affirmative action or even (god forbid) diversity training ie: "You know, it's 2015, don't you think we've out grown the need for those programs?"

Not when Shaniqua's application is excluded, deleted or otherwise thrown out on grounds that are rooted in racism.

Or they see the names in the newspaper or on classroom attendance figures and mock them to themselves. They literally had to come on an anonymous online forum to "vent" about the "problem".

My question to them is do they do it with other "ethnic" names?

Do they go through latino and hispanic, eastern european and asian names, and do the same?

If not, why not?

So why would we even think our names are "problems" if the closed minded people are too scared to say it to our faces?

Look, I will never tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do with their name. That's their choice but what I find highly nasty and historically IGNORANT is that these people think the names are the problem when in reality the problem is staring them in the mirror because black people have spent 400 years trying to assimilate and being named Rosa, Shirley or Shaniqua didn't really make much difference.

All the original poster is arguing is that these people conform to western european names so that they get past the first racist.

So, they get to the interview and then what? A racist is still going to discard them because in some way, people of color, particularly those of the African diaspora are "lesser" or maybe even "disposable".

I love my name & would never change it.

I'm glad. No one should be stuck with a name they don't want. Nor should anyone feel pressured to change their name because of the close-minded ignorance of racist dinosaurs in their community.

But nobody's said anything about it since I was a child, either. So I have the perception that people grew up & don't judge people off of silly stuff like that anymore, when the reality is apparently very different.

ps I'm not saying this in a negative way towards you. I'm just pointing out that apparently these people don't even tell the people with "offensive/stereotypical" names they have a problem with it.

I've learned a few things in my short life about bigotry and racism.

1) Most racists are cowards.
2) Most cowards feel their "convictions" have merit yet hide behind anonymity.
3) Mostly their "convictions" are borne out of ignorance, fear, distrust, or plain stupidity.

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: JadeStar

There's another problem here, though. If you look at a lot of the other posts in this thread, you'll notice that the closed minded people don't let the African Americans even know they're being discriminated against. People in this thread are saying they see the name then instantly throw out the application, no explanation given to the applicant. Or they see the names in the newspaper or on classroom attendance figures and mock them to themselves. They literally had to come on an anonymous online forum to "vent" about the "problem".

So why would we even think our names are "problems" if the closed minded people are too scared to say it to our faces? I love my name & would never change it. But nobody's said anything about it since I was a child, either. So I have the perception that people grew up & don't judge people off of silly stuff like that anymore, when the reality is apparently very different.

ps I'm not saying this in a negative way towards you. I'm just pointing out that apparently these people don't even tell the people with "offensive/stereotypical" names they have a problem with it.

I should have named the thread "ghetto names". Since "ghetto" whites and Hispanics both do the same.

Oh, and I absolutely do.... :p. hell we did the whole "confederate flag debate" all day at work....in MS. I'm pretty up front about the fact I'm an "evolution guy" and that race is 100% a man made creation. Genetics doesn't back it up. Having crap jobs and growing up poor in mississippi has left me with just as many black friends as white. They know where I'm coming from with these types of debates. I'm all logic and quick to stand corrected.

So someone has a "ghetto" name.

What does that actually MEAN?

That because their parents were perhaps disadvantaged that THEY should have to pay the price and are forever rooted to the bottom regardless of academic or other qualifications?

That's not the American dream.

We were taught that America was a place where class mobility was not just encouraged and expected but that this ability to be upwardly mobile made America exceptional among nations and in the words of Ronald Reagan "A shining city on a hill"??? (btw: don't hate, lol, my parents were Republicans) And therefore, Americans by that measure would be an exceptional people?

(ignore for a moment that plenty of other countries have more class mobility that the USA presently does).

So if that, in fact is the American Dream then are people from the ghetto not full Americans?

Who gets to be considered part of the American Dream and who isn't? And who gets to decide that? On what grounds?

I guess it's the same reason my blonde haired-blue eyed best friend who I shared a dorm with is called "All-American" while someone who looks like me is perpetually considered something else.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: JadeStar

There's another problem here, though. If you look at a lot of the other posts in this thread, you'll notice that the closed minded people don't let the African Americans even know they're being discriminated against. People in this thread are saying they see the name then instantly throw out the application, no explanation given to the applicant. Or they see the names in the newspaper or on classroom attendance figures and mock them to themselves. They literally had to come on an anonymous online forum to "vent" about the "problem".

So why would we even think our names are "problems" if the closed minded people are too scared to say it to our faces? I love my name & would never change it. But nobody's said anything about it since I was a child, either. So I have the perception that people grew up & don't judge people off of silly stuff like that anymore, when the reality is apparently very different.

ps I'm not saying this in a negative way towards you. I'm just pointing out that apparently these people don't even tell the people with "offensive/stereotypical" names they have a problem with it.

I should have named the thread "ghetto names". Since "ghetto" whites and Hispanics both do the same.

Oh, and I absolutely do.... :p. hell we did the whole "confederate flag debate" all day at work....in MS. I'm pretty up front about the fact I'm an "evolution guy" and that race is 100% a man made creation. Genetics doesn't back it up. Having crap jobs and growing up poor in mississippi has left me with just as many black friends as white. They know where I'm coming from with these types of debates. I'm all logic and quick to stand corrected.

So someone has a "ghetto" name.

What does that actually MEAN?

That because their parents were perhaps disadvantaged that THEY should have to pay the price and are forever rooted to the bottom regardless of academic or other qualifications?

That's not the American dream.

We were taught that America was a place where class mobility was not just encouraged and expected but that this ability to be upwardly mobile made America exceptional among nations and in the words of Ronald Reagan "A shining city on a hill"??? (btw: don't hate, lol, my parents were Republicans) And therefore, Americans by that measure would be an exceptional people?

(ignore for a moment that plenty of other countries have more class mobility that the USA presently does).

So if that, in fact is the American Dream then are people from the ghetto not full Americans?

Who gets to be considered part of the American Dream and who isn't? And who gets to decide that? On what grounds?

I guess it's the same reason my blonde haired-blue eyed best friend who I shared a dorm with is called "All-American" while someone who looks like me is perpetually considered something else.

No one who has agreed that your name can influence your job and other oppertunities in America has it was justified to do so. Just that it is the reality of the situation. Literally no one has replyed that " it's the way it is and employers have every right to profile and discriminate." No one.




The only question was, is it in your child's best interest to name them something ghetto. Knowing that it will make them (I'm using my own BS math here based on the study where African names recieve 50% less call backs) say 20% less hirable.


Me (like most parents I think) want there children to have every advantage. That being the case. If your child has a noticeable advantage with a "normal" sounding name. Isn't that the best thing for the child's prospects?

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: JadeStar

There's another problem here, though. If you look at a lot of the other posts in this thread, you'll notice that the closed minded people don't let the African Americans even know they're being discriminated against. People in this thread are saying they see the name then instantly throw out the application, no explanation given to the applicant. Or they see the names in the newspaper or on classroom attendance figures and mock them to themselves. They literally had to come on an anonymous online forum to "vent" about the "problem".

So why would we even think our names are "problems" if the closed minded people are too scared to say it to our faces? I love my name & would never change it. But nobody's said anything about it since I was a child, either. So I have the perception that people grew up & don't judge people off of silly stuff like that anymore, when the reality is apparently very different.

ps I'm not saying this in a negative way towards you. I'm just pointing out that apparently these people don't even tell the people with "offensive/stereotypical" names they have a problem with it.

I should have named the thread "ghetto names". Since "ghetto" whites and Hispanics both do the same.

Oh, and I absolutely do.... :p. hell we did the whole "confederate flag debate" all day at work....in MS. I'm pretty up front about the fact I'm an "evolution guy" and that race is 100% a man made creation. Genetics doesn't back it up. Having crap jobs and growing up poor in mississippi has left me with just as many black friends as white. They know where I'm coming from with these types of debates. I'm all logic and quick to stand corrected.

So someone has a "ghetto" name.

What does that actually MEAN?

That because their parents were perhaps disadvantaged that THEY should have to pay the price and are forever rooted to the bottom regardless of academic or other qualifications?

That's not the American dream.

We were taught that America was a place where class mobility was not just encouraged and expected but that this ability to be upwardly mobile made America exceptional among nations and in the words of Ronald Reagan "A shining city on a hill"??? (btw: don't hate, lol, my parents were Republicans) And therefore, Americans by that measure would be an exceptional people?

(ignore for a moment that plenty of other countries have more class mobility that the USA presently does).

So if that, in fact is the American Dream then are people from the ghetto not full Americans?

Who gets to be considered part of the American Dream and who isn't? And who gets to decide that? On what grounds?

I guess it's the same reason my blonde haired-blue eyed best friend who I shared a dorm with is called "All-American" while someone who looks like me is perpetually considered something else.

No one who has agreed that your name can influence your job and other oppertunities in America has it was justified to do so. Just that it is the reality of the situation.

Then the reality of the situation needs to change.

Slavery was the reality of the situation at one time 150 years ago. Redlining and segregation in general was the reality of the situation 60 years ago.

It didn't change by cowering to it. It changed by standing up to it.

Most importantly it changed because of good people of all shades felt it NEEDED to change.

This too needs to change. And this change can only come from people evaluating their own socio-economic biases and begin to put them in the proper context when looking at issues such as this.

It's ok to say, "that's the reality" but it's not ok to say "they need to just conform to and accept an injustice because that's just the way it is."

originally posted by: Entreri06

The only question was, is it in your child's best interest to name them something ghetto. Knowing that it will make them (I'm using my own BS math here based on the study where African names recieve 50% less call backs) say 20% less hirable.

That's not the only question. To frame it as such is very crass, don't you think?

First of all, if the racist system excludes applicants at that level what difference does it make if they got a callback to be interviewed.

Once they show up they are still black and ignorantly in a lot of people's minds, automatically stereotyped as "ghetto" until they prove otherwise - look at the thread title "African American Names" not "ghetto names" thus proving my point.

I am half african-american and half european-american.

But I'm seen as black (denying one of my parents and their families history (because you know, the privilege that comes with being considered white must be protected at all costs right?)

So for this purpose we'll just go with that.

My roommate at school was of Scandinavian heritage and neither of us has an "African-American" name however if we both got past your first gate-keeper, if they are as racist as you and such studies indicate then it wouldn't matter if the two of us are equally qualified.

In your example, she get's the job and I regardless of equal education, equal qualifications, and being equally articulate and charming during the interview, and despite having one european-american parent, would be left to pound the pavement hoping the next place was less racist.


So all you're saying is, "give your kid a chance to be discriminated against on racist grounds at a higher level than the first gate-keeper".

LOL to me that's ridiculous. If the racism and classism is the problem then the racism and classism NEEDS to be what is ELIMINATED rather than coddled and conformed to. The name isn't the problem. The people behind the desk are.

CHANGE THAT.

Second of all, it's worth pointing out that what is considered "ghetto" today may not be tomorrow. What is considered a "black" name today might nor be tomorrow as well.

Names like Jerome or Tamira are good examples.

Who is to say that if someone named their daughter Rachel or Raquel, that suddenly in 20 years time, THAT name is considered "ghetto due to many disadvantaged mothers happening to choose that name at the same time 20 years previously"?

Me (like most parents I think) want there children to have every advantage. That being the case. If your child has a noticeable advantage with a "normal" sounding name. Isn't that the best thing for the child's prospects?

Where does this thinking end though?

I am amazed that you don't see how damaging it is to a society even in a watered down form. So to illustrate this I am going to pursue it to it's logical end.

Say they allow genetically modified children in the future....

Would it not be to my or someone else's advantage to have give the child the cultural and societal advantages of having white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes through genetic modification, because those characteristics are viewed as default or "All American" and studies show such people typically do better in interviews?

And if every person on Earth did this then what? Aryan Super-race?

Well then congratulations, Hitler's dream came true.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Honestly, the best thing I can point to is government forms. Like census forms, forms when applying for financial aid for schools, etc. The next time you look at any government or business form that asks, just look at the categories for us. It's literally a legal term, just as "black" and those other terms were. But different communities consider different terms offensive or politically correct, which is why some will only use one or the other now.

I guess I assumed the new term came into use on forms because it was more popular. I never really looked into why.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Personally, I like both "black" and "African American". I like "black" because "black" people were always the lowest social class in North America, South America, colonial Africa, and in Middle Eastern countries. I took the Prophet Jesus' words to heart when he supposedly said "The way you treat the least among you is the way you treat me". As a "black" man, I get to see how societies treat the "lowest" among them. And I like "African American" because one side of my family has traced our roots to specific African regions. I love Africa and unlike some people, I see no shame in being associated with Africa. There are many who hate that term though, just as there are some that hate "black", "negro", and the others.

I always preferred black white, whatever, because they are more simply descriptions, even if not technically accurate. Hyphenated terms seem, to many, to indicate as much a mixed loyalty to location as they do any actual origins. I can understand pride in heritage, of course, and there is nothing wrong with that. Mine is European; Scottish, Irish, German (which is what I look like), and a bit of this and that, but I just call myself American. The only term of that sort that really bugs me is "Native American", because it assumes certain people are somehow more American than others.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
One day, I think people will get past "race". But that won't happen until the old guard either has died off or is completely out of power. Otherwise, there will still be policies which conveniently target specific groups. Also, there are simply too many people who still teach their kids not to date or associate with other races. Racism will always exist as long as that exists. (Also, go check out the other posts in this thread & you'll see why the division still exists)

I had hoped to see that, growing up, and being around people that mostly tried to ignore it as a factor, save in describing someone. These days, it's getting worse, instead of better, though! So much violence in the news, over something so shallow as skin color! I wish all those perpetrating that would realize they only make things worse. It sin't like we are primitive tries competing to survive, anymore.