Why This Lawmaker Opposes Abortion For Everyone Except His Own Wife And Mistress

a reply to: enlightenedservant

My assumptions are based on the hope that, as abhorrent as elective-abortion clinics are to me, that they would at least follow the letter of the law and oath that doctors take.

Like I said in my post, IF the law was violated by the abortion clinic(s) and they did allow De Jarlais to force these two ladies to have an abortion, then there is a much bigger problem here than a hypocritical politician.

Wow, that's a lot of assuming for someone who doesn't want to play the "what if game". The simple fact is that you don't know whether she was threatened or not, therefore you defaulted to the assumption that she wasn't. If we're having an honest conversation, we have to look at all possible scenarios, not just the ones that are convenient to us.

Thank you for pointing out the simple fact that I don't whether or not she was threatened--oh, wait, let me quote myself: "Neither of us know the details..."

It's almost like I admitted that I know I don't know the details...and I also made sure to point out that I didn't argue the issue of coercion on De Jarlais' part. But, you know, feel free to turn the discussion into something different if you like, and then make the connection to abortion-or-you're-dead threats and then lecture me on assumptions.

As for your comment:

That's the whole reason I pointed out that women are most likely to be murdered by men they're in relationships with or were formerly in relationships with. That's a fact. And women all over the world & in this very country have to live with that threat everyday. Just because you want to dismiss that as "not probable" or "not likely" doesn't make it so. Those are your own assumptions.

Could you be a little more alarmist, here? Who died, other than two innocent children? And my wife doesn't live with some ridiculous threat that I'm going to murder her--nor, I'm quite certain, do most women in America. Just because you want to cite a statistic that involves a tiny amount of women doesn't mean that women "live with that threat everyday" any more than the average woman always worries that she's going to be killed in a car accident everyday.

Here's the deal--your original objection to my comment was that I said that, "She made the call to have the abortion, not him." I still stand by that comment until you can show me evidence of this conspiracy with the clinic to do a forced abortion against her will.

A little off topic, but I came across an article about this gem of a guy yesterday:
Secretly Gay Pastor

Some outwardly anti-gay Lutheran pastor in Michigan was secretly soliciting gay sex on Grindr. The 'leadership' that be- not just in America, but all over the world- is chock full of hypocrites. Although the OP story wins this round, douchebag hypocrite politicians aren't just 'guiding' people, they are passing laws that FORCE people to comply with their two faced nonsense.

PS All this antiabortion crap is really going to bite us in the ass in about 20 years when all the babies they 'saved' are crippling the welfare system and committing crimes.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I have known several female friends who were 'forced' into 'elective' abortions. Not by threat of violence at all. But when they informed the 'loving fathers' of these 'innocent babies' they were met with the reality of complete non-support- either emotionally or financially. One friend knew she couldn't afford the baby on her own so she was going to say she had an abortion but really have it and give it up for adoption to a nice couple she knew. But the psycho sperm donor threatened to stalk her. After getting a glimpse of her future- 18 years of stress and anxiety out of this guy- she ended up having an abortion for real. I guarantee he would have denied the adoption, taken full or partial custody of the kid and completely screwed the poor girl/boy up for the rest of their lives. If she tried to raise the child the guy would have given her nothing but grief and resisted paying any kind of helpful amount of child support.

My point is that there are many other threats beyond just killing someone.

And you're going to say- but the government will MAKE the father's pay child support. And I will counter that with 'BS'. My OTHER friend who kept her 'oops' baby has been waiting 6 years for a dime of child support. Apparently all you have to do to avoid it is NOT ANSWER THE DOOR when they try to serve you.

Bottom line: If you don't have a uterus, don't try to tell other people what to do with theirs.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: SlapMonkey
And you're going to say- but the government will MAKE the father's pay child support. And I will counter that with 'BS'. My OTHER friend who kept her 'oops' baby has been waiting 6 years for a dime of child support. Apparently all you have to do to avoid it is NOT ANSWER THE DOOR when they try to serve you.

You don't know me at all...your desire to ASSume what I'm going to say makes me not want to say what I actually was going to say. You do your argument a huge disservice by pretending to be smarter than you are.

Bottom line: If you don't have a uterus, don't try to tell other people what to do with theirs.

I don't give a damn what you do with your uterus, but I do care what you do with a baby that is father by a second half of the equation who generally have zero say in what a woman does with their child.

Luckily, I have a wife (who has a uterus, btw) who has re-enforced by point of view because she intelligence on her side and not emotional feminist-wannabe talking points as the basis for her arguments on this issue. I agree 100% with my wife's stance on this issue, and she has this crazy notion that husbands should have a say in what happens with their child. She's intelligent enough to understand that nature dictates whose body gestates a baby, and that this fact doesn't in and of itself negate the man's responsibilities or rights over that baby--and that includes before birth, not just after.

But, that's okay, we can agree to disagree, just don't pretend that just because you might have a womb and I do not does not equate to you having the right to murder a child whose unique DNA (even in the zygote state) is half contributed by the man in the relationship.

My stance in no way excuses nor supports forced or coerced abortions due to pressure by the man, but in the same breath, to think a woman has the only say is absolute feminist garbage. I do believe the woman has the final say in the end--hence my comments that, even if coerced or forced, the final responsibility falls to the woman concerning an abortion.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

We can debate abortion til we're blue in the face (or our fingers cramp up, since we're typing). The primary point of the OP was to point out the hypocrisy of politicians. They try to ban the procedure for everyone else, who may need it for a plethora of reasons, but have no qualms doing it when it suits their needs.

Abortion is a hard, heartbreaking decision. MANY women are accompanied by their boyfriend, husband, baby daddy because they reached a joint decision on the matter. MANY more would love to carry the baby to term but they know that the 'loving father' will be abusive, create massive stress in their lives, be unavailable emotionally or financially. They foresee nothing but hard times for the next 18 years. Many women have medical reasons- that wouldn't constitute life threatening- such as lupus or needing gall bladder surgery. For every abortion, there is a story behind it, and the stories are usually painful and upsetting, not flippant in any way.

And you keep asserting that even a coerced woman ultimately has the final word? Well, clearly you've never been coerced. Congratulations on a pampered life.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

PS It's not a 'child' until the incubator...oops, I mean woman carries it to term. That's 10 months (not 9) of morning sickness, weight gain, raging hormones, fluid build up, aching joints, bone separation, pre-natal vitamins, monthly if not weekly checkups, abstinence from smoking and alcohol, hours of painful labor to be followed by pushing the baby out of her vagina or worse yet having to have it cut out. Women are fired from jobs or discriminated against when trying to find a job due to pregnancy. I ended up with carpal tunnel and a hernia that needs surgery to fix. And this is all a typical, healthy pregnancy! Some women have it even worse- gestational diabetes, preeclampsia, etc.

Most abortions are performed in the first trimester. I guarantee if you saw this crawling toward you on the floor, you would step on it:


And as for the 'barbaric' late term abortions? Almost NONE are just for sh*ts and giggles. You can't see most major malformations on an ultrasound until after the 20 week mark. Even if I desperately wanted a baby I would have a late term abortion if I knew that the 'baby' had some condition that was incompatible with life. And that's MY decision to make, not some Republican douchebag.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

PPS That's a cat fetus, not human. You can't even tell the difference at that stage.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

My wife--the one whose opinion I respect much more than yours and other ideological, seeming wannabe feminist haters of "Republican douchebags"--had to have her thyroid removed and has had sciatica nerve damage along her outer left leg since our son was born 11.5 years ago. After having our daughter 1.5 years ago, she now has (apparent) perpetual sciatica nerve damage on her right outer portion of her leg. She must take a synthetic thyroid medication for the rest of her life, and since doctors can't seem to get her thyroid levels just right, she is hauling around about 40lbs more weight than she had before our son was born (and can't lose it, no matter how well she eats or exercises...a true case of a thyroid issue causing overweight problems). She also went through a bought of gestational diabetes, not to mention a scare from false positives for downs syndrome for both of our children.

And I'm sure that there are lingering issues that I don't even comprehend, like the guilt that she has expressed for not being able to breastfeed either children (and it wasn't for lack of a helluvan effort trying everything possible), or the guilt for having been deployed for a year when my son was two years old.

But, like I said before, I'm lucky enough to have found a woman willing to be the love of my life and to mother our two children with unending love and willingness to do anything for them--and yet, she still has the ability to see abortion for what it is and has helped mold and reaffirm my stance on it as well.

As for your tired (and scientifically ignorant) implication that a fetus is not a human until it is born--makes me wonder where the phrase "with child" originated--you can keep repeating that all you want, but it doesn't make it true. But I'm quite certain arguing the science behind individual DNA present at zygote stage, or the fact that a fetus is its own human being dependent upon its mother's body, not a part of its mother's body to be removed like a malignant tumor, is a pointless endeavor, so we'll just agree to disagree on that one.

And just because a cat fetus isn't visually different doesn't mean that the difference between it and a human fetus can't be determined. Your guarantees about what I would step on mean nothing to me...I generally never step on a creature unless I know it to be harmful to my family or myself.