This was sent to me today.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

A similar CONCEPT by DARPA. While not submarines they are performing much the same mission and could in theory be heard by friendly subs and give the enemy subs position away.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Zaphod58

Not if the signal seems like anything other than a signal and is encrypted. For example two whale poops and a shark fart equals message received. A shoal of fish plus two sea lions barking equals launch all missiles immediately.

Let's say, hypothetically, I have a system that encrypts a signal within the whale poop sound (or better yet, geological background sounds), or etc. That would work fine for the occassional burst msg between members of a "wolfpack" or such, but a swarm of AUV's collecting a distributing data and reporting back to a "mothership" is going to quickly give your game away. You've gone from "Hey, random background noise" to "WTF is going on over there?"

a reply to: _Del_

OK fine. They silently collect their data. Then send one burst every now and then with all the data via some compressed encrypted data file using whale farts. Or they just simply hold on to it and do their treff and hand it over then. But if something was more entangled then my fishing line when I cast and forget to put my thumb on the spool it might not be an issue at all how many times you transmit.

Maybe the drones would have thermal sensing capabilities?

I'm imagining all these sensor drones would be networked, so the furthest one away would transmit to the next closest one. That drone in turn would relay that information to the next drone, and so on and so forth.

Larger data dumps would be performed once the drone did a pass by the actual boat. The drones would also have some autonomy, and be able to self-sacrifice themselves as counter measures in the event they are ordered to.

Also, I would imagine building in a self-destruct system would be a good idea. If the drone hasn't received any communication or orders, or looses its network feed for a preset time -- it destroys itself. This would keep it from being caught in a fishing net or being found by someone.

They could run in "active" mode, or passive mode.

a reply to: Clairaudience

To find the best kept secret people should not be looking up, but way down below the seabed.

OK someone tell me about this please.

a reply to: Domo1

Was sorta where I was going in terms of communication.


Mystik,
maybe some sorta phase conjugate for direct line of sight coms. Harder to interdict.

Entanglement for really hard to intercept signals.

Maybe a signal that's so slow that nobody can even notice it's a pattern and a signal.

a reply to: Domo1

I am alluding to the Rock-site concept and what may have followed over the recent decades.

While I do not have any evidence, I personally think it is possible and plausible.
In my opinion at least some of the insertions of Navy Seals and Special Forces via submarines are not in combat zones, but some might be resupply missions and crew exchanges for something that lies deep beneath the oceans surface, including submerged submarine harbors.

Just something to ponder about, content for a different thread.

a reply to: Clairaudience

Maybe their not swapping crews between underwater bases and subs...?

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Maybe not, just putting it out there.

At least strategically it makes sense, having a network of underwater bases to resupply subs, exchange crew and acting as communication relays. The Navy has a rich history when it comes to researching ways to enable prolonged underwater habitats.

did a little thread in 2013 about sub launched drones that got little attention

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm with BASSPLYR I think there are things going on with sub launched drones and the USN in general that are in the super dark. I think there is a pretty big push into weaponized UUV's also as a bunch of projects just fell off the horizon a few years ago.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

You'll have to have some fancy algorithms to determine what's necessary or notable enough to transmit, otherwise you'll never get all the info out with periodic or slow/long messages. Long-term, that's where the answer is going to be. Greater autonomous ability. Short-term, you might look towards a submersible float on an umbilical to send microwave bursts at regular intervals to a UAV or satellite to relay. Or even multiple bouys to transmit on a delay, allowing you to put distance between you and the transmitter first, but there are predictable drawbacks with that. Ultimately, you'd like to be able to set a search-and-destroy mission in a certain sector. You could target certain profiles within a search grid and just let it (them) go like a mobile minefield. But noone, understandably, is comfortable with the technology to implement that at the moment.

Recon Sat spots what is believed to be an enemy ship. Command signals nearest sub to come to communications depth by ELF. Satellite relays target data to sub. Sub moves to a chosen position and launches drone. Drone is either operated autonomously or guided by satellite / ground connection. Drone identifies target, acquires course and speed At an agreed upon time the sub comes back up to communications depth and receives targeting information. Sub launches missile at target. With in a certain range the missile receives targeting data directly from drone. BOOM!

Just a guess.

I think some of you have the wrong idea about what a subs missions are about.
1. It's ALL about stealth. It leaves base, submerges and REMAINS silent for the duration. Only needs to act in times of action. In other words they would not risk giving the position away of their multi-billion craft just to launch a drone when said drone could be launched and controlled from half way round the world.
2 Mission perameters are known before mission starts. ANY action by ANY sub would only require incoming data.
3. A sub would only expose itself under very strict and essential conditions. I could guarrantee those conditions would be a imminent war footing.
4. Even surfacing is a strict no no. So I think the story is just that, a story.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the use of optical lasers for secure comms..

One potential solution is to carry out optical communications using a laser, a concept which has been around since the 1980s when experiments were carried out to demonstrate that it is possible to maintain an optical channel between a submarine and an airborne platform.
The Quantum Technologies group at defence technology specialist ITT Exelis is looking at taking this a step further through research into the feasibility of laser optical communication between a submarine and a satellite or an airborne platform, secured by using quantum information.

Deep secret – secure submarine communication on a quantum level

a reply to: crayzeed

It's more than a story. It's been used multiple times, in the real world.

Operating under support of the Los Angeles class submarine USS Providence (SSN
719) and the Naval Undersea Warfare Center-Newport Division (NUWC-NPT), the
NRL developed XFC UAS -eXperimentalFuel Cell Unmanned Aerial System - was
fired from the submarine's torpedo tube using a 'Sea Robin' launch vehicle
system. The Sea Robin launch system was designed to fit within an empty
Tomahawk launch canister (TLC) used for launching Tomahawk cruise missiles
already familiar to submarine sailors.

Once deployed from the TLC, the Sea Robin launch vehicle with integrated XFC
rose to the ocean surface where it appeared as a spar buoy. Upon command of
Providence Commanding Officer, the XFC then vertically launched from Sea Robin
and flew a successful several hour mission demonstrating live video
capabilities streamed back to Providence, surface support vessels and Norfolk
before landing at the Naval Sea Systems Command Atlantic Undersea Test and
Evaluation Center (AUTEC), Andros, Bahamas.

www.bloomberg.com...

The Virginia Class submarines will start carrying UUVs this year.

The Navy will deploy its first underwater drones from Virginia-class attack submarines for the first time in history later this year, the Navy's director of undersea warfare said Monday.
The deployment will include the use of the Remus 600 Unmanned Underwater Vehicles, or UUVs, performing undersea missions in strategic locations around the globe, Rear Adm. Joseph Tofalo, told Military.com at the Navy League's Sea Air Space annual symposium at National Harbor, Md.
"Now you are talking about a submarine CO who can essentially be in two places at the same time – with a UUV out deployed which can do dull, dirty and dangerous type missions. This allows the submarine to be doing something else at the same time," Tofalo said. "UUVs can help us better meet our combatant command demand signal. Right now, we only meet about two-thirds of our combatant commanders demand signals and having unmanned systems is a huge force multiplier."

www.military.com...

a reply to: crayzeed

But what about the 688 that surfaced right behind my ferry and then anchored a quarter mile out and sent sailors ashore to catalina for some shore leave at the bars via RIB's They surfaced, cruised next to some ferry's and then parked overnight in Avalon harbor. SO they do surface when they want to.

Drones could be more than just flying through the air. Like an ohio. Get rid of the ballistic missiles. Tell the public they are now carrying a ton of cruise missiles. And they probably do carry a bunch but put UAVs in some of the tubes. Drones in the torpedo room. Get rid of the ballistic missile tubes al together and make that a hangar like one of those james bond/ Glomar explorer moon pools with doors n everything and launch 30-60 foot long drone mini subs.

a reply to: crayzeed

I think that he is referring to Ballistic Missile Sub patrols, I was referring to Fast Attacks.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

That would cost almost as much as a new boat. You'd have to essentially cut her apart and rebuild the entire aft end.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Bet it's been done before. I wouldn't put it past them. At least that's what I would do if I was in charge. It's almost more expensive to build a brand new sub and then hide all of the paperwork regarding said new sub. Might be cheaper and easier in the end to take a older ohio off line for a year. retrofit her interior, put some doors on her. presto halibut 2.0. even more room than the jimmy carter. jimmy carter quieter though so use her wasp waist for the really sneaky stuff.

Instead of using a SSN to guard a carrier task force or two or three of them. Have an ohio. have her launch drones out the wazoo and the seaspace underneath the carrier task force looks like a tropical aquarium filled with exotic, stealthy and lethal fish waiting to sink their teeth into the first Russian/Chinese/ whatever sewer pipe that swims into the task forces perimeter. It could be like oprah. look under your keels...a new drone!!! Everybody gets a new drone!!! And all the little surface ships are happy.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

It would take more than a year to do it. It took 36 months to do the refuel and modification to an SSGN, and that was just changing the ICBM tubes over to carrying Tomahawks. It would be 2-3 years minimum to do a modification that extensive.