Mental illness - just have a think for a second before you open your mouth.

I've never had to deal with mental illness personally (as far as I know) but I can imagine it's one of the worst diseases to have because it's something that people don't pick up automatically when they meet you and a lot of people seem to think people are just using that as an excuse, which I think is so wrong because a war inside the mind is probably the worst kind of disability, physical or mental.
A lot of good posts have been made in here and I'm not going to act like I have all the answers. The whole subject of mental health is so gray , so many variations of it so to just stamp someone insane is all kinds of wrong (and ignorant, we're here to deny that btw)
Now...no one is making up excuses for that pilot guy but I think, if he would've gotten the actual help he needed in time we wouldn't be right here, right now discussing this matter. Mental healthcare worldwide is seriously lacking and it's really something we as humanity should work together to fix, just so...in the future we wont be here still discussing this very same matter because another person lost their mind. We really need to go to the core of the problem and fix it there instead of screaming foul-play every time someone loses it. I have no solutions, just thinking up loud..but I find this thread interesting and wish there were more intelligent discussions on mental illness over here. Then somehow, we could maybe start working towards something similar to a better understanding of it worldwide..(dreamer, I know..)
PS...This is truly a tragic event and RIP to everybody involved.

a reply to: and14263

I think we have spent enough time trying to understand these nut cases, and when I say nutcases, I mean people who purposely take other peoples lives from them. Like this piece of garbage who crashed the plane that tried to play God by taking all those with him because he had mental problems. Guess what? I don't care about his problems, I care about the victims.

I am glad that he no longer walks the Earth. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: SheopleNation

And I feel the SAME for the victims. But don't pretend you know what he went through or that he "did it on purpose" or was "playing God"

If you want to curse him fine but that source of thinking is why we choose not to treat and hopefully PREVENT these sort of things...instead we punish

originally posted by: KyoZero

And I feel the SAME for the victims. But don't pretend you know what he went through or that he "did it on purpose" or was "playing God"

I am not pretending to know anything, What part of me not caring about his problems do you not understand? And yes, taking all those peoples lives is trying to play God. Someone with mental issues, and someone who commits mass murder because of those possible mental issues are two different things.

If you want to curse him fine but that source of thinking is why we choose not to treat and hopefully PREVENT these sort of things...instead we punish

You're damn right we should punish them, anyone who purposely murders other human beings should be executed. Your treatments thus far have been a failure, and actually cost people their lives.

Your so called treatment almost always leads to some imbecile releasing them back into society so they can harm even more innocent lives. Yet there is never any responsibility for those who make that decision, now is there?

Hey? We all have our opinions, it's just that I don't share your feel good solutions. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: SheopleNation

My treatment has thus far been a failure....and ALWAYS leads to some imbecile releasing them in a dangerous manner

Well I am glad you aren't taking the emotionally charged approach

Schizophrenia Link

Schizophrenia, which everyone seems to think is ALWAYS dangerous and leading to violence is nowhere near what people think it is.

Look...honestly...You can of course have your thoughts. And whether you think so or not, I feel for those victims...more than you may think or give me credit for. I wish they were all here, landing soft on the runway. But they aren't

But I will continue to pray and hope for people with mental illness as well.

Fair play to you...I accept how you feel

a reply to: KyoZero

I respect your feelings too, and I am just talking about those who murder others, not mental illness in general. Of course I feel bad for regular people who suffer from certain conditions, I don't think anyone would wish that upon themselves. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: SheopleNation

fair enough friend

I sure do wish they were still with us

a reply to: Bone75

And I had 3 children killed by their drunk driving father after a judge insisted I had to let them go with him despite the fact that he had multiple DUI's. It took several more cases like my children's before the judge was disbarred for being incompetent due to mental illness (dementia). Their father was bi-polar who self medicated with alcohol that led to out of control alcoholism result of inefficient help You aren't the only one who has lost someone in a tragic way.

You see people do horrible things for all manner of reasons some because they are evil, others because they don't grasp what they are doing. Tragedies leave behind survivors, the survivors often develop mental illness as a result.

You are taking on an additude that shows just as much disdain for the survivors. You are breeding an attitude that makes it even harder for someone to get help in a culture that already stigmatizes and looks down on people with mental illness.

So many lives could be saved if help was readily available and people weren't afraid of unfair labels for seeking help.

Obviously it goes without question that any person who takes down a plane killing others or killing a child is "mentally ill". They might not be evil. Then again they might be.

Personally I blame the psychotropic drugs these people might be taking. It can also be street drugs. Withdrawals of these can cause a psychotic break in the sanest of people.

Yes we should sympathise with the mentally I'll, for they are not thinking clearly. A drug addict is n't thinking clearly.

I have a nephew who had severe drug addiction problems and during one period of his revovery ( although I think he was on them again) he said to me " I'm so depressed, your husband yelled at me so badly I want to kill myself. Do you ever feel like killing yourself?" I said yes I do. Then he stunned me by saying " do you ever want to take somebody else out with you?" I said no I dont. He said he did and wanted to kill my husband and himself. A murder suicide. He was very distraught and not thinking clearly. I understood his pain but could not understand wanting to take somebody with you, he was suggesting you may as well if they deserve it. So I just talked to him ( over the phone) and calmed him down. My nephew does not usually appear to be mentally ill. It was the drugs and his inability to cope with being yelled at so badly where he was made to feel like a piece of #. I also do not think he is evil. He has a heart of gold otherwise but I have noted he has some silly borderline evil quirks about him at times, long before he got into street drugs. That's just my opinion though. Perhaps the drugs drew it out of him when he suggested the murder suicide idea? His reasoning was he made me feel this way so he should die too.


However, I do think there are evil people in this world. Or people who kill for motive. For example a person who murders to collect Insurance money is greedy and evil. A person who tortures and kills animals is evil. Evil exists and that's where the problem is regarding the publics reaction. It might be in there, in the person to some degree and something brings it bubbling to the surface when they snap.

a reply to: and14263

Perfect example of you not understanding the workings of the brain. God help you if you or your children ever become ill.

I once asked my psychiatrist , have you got the brain thingy worked out yet . He answered , the more we know the less we know . He then added that he had buried 4 of his colleagues that had committed suicide . If you "understand" the workings of the brain please feel free to enlighten the medical profession .

a reply to: hutch622

Okay, change word 'brain' to mental illness... Sure you know what I was trying to suggest though.

a reply to: and14263

I re read your OP and i kind of get where you are coming from , but the experts in these fields are mainly experts in hindsight . Most of them cant tell Ted Bundy from Al Bundy before the murders start . Psychosis is easy once is has started , there is no way to predict it but it is easy to diagnose once it has happened . The people who suffer from more common mental illnesses such as myself (and i dont make light of any illness much less mental illness) who although we have been diagnosed suffer because the mental health community in most cases are still guessing . If they struggle to understand these illnesses i dont know how the community at large are supposed to understand .

Yes, there's evil and our normal consciousness is able to reject it or let it in/out, to think about tabu stuff and let it be in the center. However it is not comming to the center but rather the consciousness is centering itself through lower levels.
In our lower brain it is ok to kill and eat a child as it is ok for the animals from time to time to even do this because their mothers somehow feel they are weak and useless. You won't label such a bear or tiger mother mentally ill.
Psychology is a pseudoscientific religion. You won't label an animal with postpartum syndrome or psychosis do you? Unless you suffer from compulsive labeling.
We just fight battles with our own lower levels which have their own laws. Istead of bringing light to them from the higher levels ("chakras" if you wish)
I'm not surprised such event takes place in Germany. Their "order", "ordnung", instant everyday bossing push is not in tune with a human nature. The guy's lower brain was just yelling in him from the school age "Screw yourselves with your hitlerjugend order!" and something pushed him a step further to his little victory, freedom, peace of mind and satisfaction.
Or not. Maybe it was something else. Just don't let the establishment use the pseudoscience to let people disappear in psych wards without a court and evidence of possessing true danger. It's happening on a large scale where i live. It's been around for centuries. People are chemically zombified forever just because someone said something etc. Psychiatry priests are mighty. What they say is holy for the masses and a court is just a formality.
I'm not surprised that sexual tourism and all kinds of perversions are so popular there. They can't breathe there in Germany.
a reply to: violet
I feel for your nephew. The yelling and hate hurts deep inside. If he was a girl he would just cried but God gave him the balls too so he felt just slightly different reaction to hate. People need love. If you don't shy tell him words of love which such energy that it will root deeper in his Heart than the hatred weed. It can heal. Toxic pharmaceuticals can never do this.

originally posted by: CaptainTwig
a reply to: nerbot
Not trying to argue, but I doesn't take empathy to understand mental illness. I'm autistic and I understand well enough. Logic and intelligence are what you need, which is even more lacking. As for your struggle, I'm right there with you. Even why I try to open up about it, people just look at me like I'm crazy.

Not trying to debate, trying to understand you ... if I am understanding you correctly are you saying that being Autistic means being without empathy? If so, my youngest nephew is Autistic and he's quite loving, kind, compassionate and empathic. I don't think Autism in itself is classified as a mental illness unless there is an additional diagnosis of a disorder that is a mental illness.

a reply to: Jana12
Sorry for the confusion. I was told that my lack of empathy was due to my high-functioning autism. ASD varies alot, so not everyone has am the same symptoms.

a reply to: and14263

People are not conditioned to think. In that way most people are mentally ill, as they lack the ability or willingness to see all sides to a situation.

On one hand, I think those questions are more likely to be asked of people that just lack some direct experience of mental illness.

On another hand, I think it is rather scary for people to see such events in terms of possibility for themselves.
We want to believe that our ethics and morals and principles will guard us from ourselves.

I can't remember which philosopher it was, but one of them elaborated on the fear humans all have of themselves.
That the body might escape the holds of the mind and just jump off that cliff, or pull that trigger, and self-destruct.

When we see acts like this, it stirs that fear- that somewhere, deep down inside, we might have a secret self destructive enemy, that would not only deny self, but others. I might not be aware of it, I might not feel it at all.. but what if it is there? Hiding.... awaiting it's moment to arise and commit attrocities???

Our only defense is a strong offense. Strong and aggressive feelings against such acts, voiced and repeated, with emotional force. The sense that doing so will build up the will so that it is strong enough to keep that silent enemy down in the dungeon.

I think that is why acknowledging the possibility of an illness, that can hit you and just release that dragon despite all your will, is something they kind of don't want to acknowledge. -And perhaps there is some validity to that! Our beliefs about reality and our nature tend to form them- like someone else said, believing that might increase the numbers of people who fall prey to such a drive, as their beliefs about mental illness confirm it.

My parents often said mental illness is a choice. That sounds rather unfair these days, with the current mode being that it is a chemical problem that can only be treated with drugs. But it does seem to me that on some level, even not totally conscious, for many, there is an element of choice- choice to run from reality, choice to not choose any more. This view at least gives some paths for sufferers to use in taking up the reins again. But not all.

It doesn't seem to me that we can accurately summarize all cases of mental illness, the mind is incredibly complex.

a reply to: Bluesma

I love your post and would like to add my own thoughts...respectfully of course

The idea that we all have the capability to hurt is so real. I think the most promising and efficient way to target such things is to face them and admit them. Know who you are, what you are capable of and what would tip you off to complete such an action. Jung had the idea that to conquer yourself was to know yourself. Obviously he and his theory are so vast that an expert could spend days typing and never scratch the surface, but one of the base truths of analysis is to know you and know what you are made of. I think constant build up of walls in order to block out harsh realities is a difficult and dangerous idea.

Your last line...

It doesn't seem to me that we can accurately summarize all cases of mental illness, the mind is incredibly complex.

Beautiful words there