House passes resolution urging Obama to send weapons to Ukraine

a reply to: CaticusMaximus

This is clearly, I mean CLEARLY, the government attempting to start a war with Russia! Is this not 100% clear? If Russia says that the USA offering to weaponize or help Ukraine is a clear act of war and "our government" STILL votes to do this....What is that saying to it's people? I will tell you what it isn't saying...IT ISN'T SAYING that we want to stay out of it and don't want war....This is clearly obvious and I wish the EFFING GOVERNMENT would ask the people what we want...Because I can guarantee if everyone was to vote on this, it wouldn't get anywhere near the support needed to get involved here...But who are we, right???

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
a reply to: CaticusMaximus

This is clearly, I mean CLEARLY, the government attempting to start a war with Russia! Is this not 100% clear? If Russia says that the USA offering to weaponize or help Ukraine is a clear act of war and "our government" STILL votes to do this....What is that saying to it's people?

What it says to the World is that if Russia decides to annex part of your country you can get some weapons on credit to fight them.

Since when does Russia get to tell anyone what Ukraine does? Or the US? How you see this as so CLEARLY trying to start a war with Russia is odd. Even fanatical I might say.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

So when Russia says anyone that gets involved with assisting Ukraine is an act of war, then the USA is passing in overwhelming fashion a bill to send weapons to Ukraine....Is that not helping and in fact clearly opting to go to war with Russia over this? I don't see how you can't see it that way....

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

Considering other nations are in fact supplying arms to Ukraine it makes one wonder why Russia has issues if the US does it. Russia invading Ukraine is in fact an act of war. Ukraine has been asking for assistance and as a sovereign nation with parts of its territories occupied by Russian forces they have every right to ask for help and other nations have every right to help Ukraine.

Russia is reaping what it has sowed.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
a reply to: CaticusMaximus

Excellent move and long overdue.

If you can't get the EU to sign up to real tough economic sanctions which they keep refusing then the US can only start arming Ukraine. Get the weapons in there to stop Russia from annexing more territory. Sadly the EU doesn't have a system of government to deal with military aggression very well. Once again they need to be bailed out.

You really need to get your pants untwisted and stop seeing HBO as your take on history. EU has imposed plenty of sanctions on Russia which if you read international news you would understand.

a reply to: uncommitted

You mean the Sanctions that force 80 people or so to vacation outside the EU? Or the sanctions that force them to buy Oil Drilling equipment on the Black Market? You can't mean the Sanctions that stop Western money men from earning huge profits on Russian stocks and bonds...letting the Chinese earn that money?

I'm not sure which Sanctions the EU has imposed you expected to stop Russia...

a reply to: noeltrotsky

From what I see with perfect clarity and immediately I might add is that there is fanaticism on both sides of this argument. I look left and I see a fanatic. I look right and I see another fanatic.

a reply to: CaticusMaximus

What the H#ll happened to diplomacy? Why is the 'answer' in so many of our leader's minds, always WEAPONS and WAR these days? Answer: MONEY. This is nothing but a ridiculous excuse for a reason to pad the pockets of companies that make the weapons in question. I'm sure their lobbyists are giddy with delight over this, and the huge bonuses they'll receive for their valiant (sarcasm) efforts.

Have they lost their freaking minds? Supporting the opposition to Russia may as well be a declaration of war on our part. Pass a resolution about bringing the opposing parties to the table to work out a peaceful solution, and I'm all on board. War does not bring peace. Peace brings peace.

I'm sick of our idiot politicians!!!

a reply to: CaticusMaximus

Well world war has never been so close in a long while. I can smell it on the horizon. Just when I finally lost the ambition for soldiering...figures.

Looks like some of us may have to enlist if it does break out. This will be one bloody bad war if it does happen. Both sides are going to lose many lives....

I usually dont like doom porn. I still dont, but something feels different. I am buying it this time around. Maybe I am a fool. I hope I am a fool on this.

EDIT TO ADD:
I dont know whats worse. Contemplating having to rush off to go die in some far off place, getting nuked at home, or them putting it all off until my unborn son has to go through those things....or hoping to hell this is all a bad dream.

Some are buying the line that we are just urging to send arms to Ukraine? Thats already being done. This 'cease fire' is so Kiev can reload. When thats done the new spiring offensive will begin.

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
a reply to: noeltrotsky

So when Russia says anyone that gets involved with assisting Ukraine is an act of war, then the USA is passing in overwhelming fashion a bill to send weapons to Ukraine....Is that not helping and in fact clearly opting to go to war with Russia over this? I don't see how you can't see it that way....

Russia doesn't rule the world. They don't get to dictate terms to other countries or tell people who they can and can't ally with. Its Russia's inability to grasp this fact that has lead to this situation. This is sending a clear message to the world and Russia that this is not acceptable. it's sending a clear message to Russia that if they decide to annex countries, Those countries will not be standing alone.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
a reply to: uncommitted

You mean the Sanctions that force 80 people or so to vacation outside the EU? Or the sanctions that force them to buy Oil Drilling equipment on the Black Market? You can't mean the Sanctions that stop Western money men from earning huge profits on Russian stocks and bonds...letting the Chinese earn that money?

I'm not sure which Sanctions the EU has imposed you expected to stop Russia...

Rather than rhetoric without the facts, here is the information from the EU -

europa.eu...

a reply to: uncommitted

Yup...those are the sanctions I mentioned. They have had an impressive effect on Russia after one year. How many more years should we wait for the full effect? How many more countries get to be carved up while these sanctions take time to work?

Russia has been arming the enemies of the US since the Korean War. The US has been arming Russia's enemies any time there's an opportunity.

They can make all the threats they want but it's simply saber-rattling. They've been committing "acts of war" against the US for over 60 years.

This proxy-war nonsense is a mechanism to keep certain people in both countries filthy rich. If Russia and the U.S. really wanted to harm each other, there'd be open war. Instead, the mega-rich living within the two superpowers keep each other mega-rich by sponsoring mini-wars in other countries where they supply the arms to destroy the country and the equipment/manpower to rebuild it. Everyone wins... except for the country that is destroyed.

Here in Europe there are a lot of people that say they would not kill europeans or russians if a war would start here.
They say they would go to the US, dressed up as normal tourists, to hook up with any kind of a US citizens militia, to fight the ones, US government, US oligarchs, who started the war in europe!

Are they wrong