Large companies bailing out of the Russian Federation

a reply to: MrSpad

You may well be right about everything you stated but China is not going to let Russia go down for the count because they know that after Russia, they are next in the cross hairs. All we are accomplishing is to strengthen the bond between the two. China isn't stupid. They see this. Hell, I'm not the brightest kid in the classroom and I even see this fact.

PS: China and Russia could defeat us tomorrow without firing a shot. All they would have to do is start selling off US Treasuries on the open market and our economy would be toast.

a reply to: MrSpad

I think the Mahindra "SP" farm tractor is made in Russia and they sell the shist out of them here in the states.

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: MrSpad

You may well be right about everything you stated but China is not going to let Russia go down for the count because they know that after Russia, they are next in the cross hairs. All we are accomplishing is to strengthen the bond between the two. China isn't stupid. They see this. Hell, I'm not the brightest kid in the classroom and I even see this fact.

China only has an interest in China. And China's only dispute with the US is over Taiwan. China also does not see the US as an aggresive occupier. In fact China see's the US as vital to keeping the other Asian states in check and the trade lanes open. If korea is unified China has made it clear the US troops would still be ok in Korea. China also depends on the US keep the Islamic Radical threat down and spreading into its own regions. As well China sees Russia's policies in Ukraine as directly contrary to theirs in Tibet. Your right China is not stupid, they have no interest in making an enemy of the US. So when it came time to defend Russia in the UN, China did not vote. If China has a military exercise with Russia, they schedule one with the US right after.

China sees the US as way to keep Japan in check. And China sees Russia as another North Korea. Foolish and short sighted. China is happy to use Russia. However, everytime it comes to point Russia needs China's support China is silent. Of course the fact that Russia was selling weapons systems specificly to counter China's to two of China's most likely foes India and Vietnam has never sat well with China. If Russia were to fall China would no doubt grab its eastern territories.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: smirkley

When the cost of food reaches a certain level of disposable income revolutions happen. This percentage is right around 40% and Russia is in the 30-40% range now.



Look it up and see the simple truth when people can no longer feed themselves the leaders of that country fail. And when revolutions happen businesses can have huge issues. Even worse leaders can take power this is how men like Hitler and Stalin gained power.

For the poor in the US it's about 28% now (200 to eat for a month, 700 in income)

Check my past posts and you will see I have been making a prediction for the last year or so......Anyone making under 15 dollars an hour will be screwed in the next couple of years because of inflation. So ya I get it and ya it is widespread at this point.

a reply to: MrSpad

The New York Times today published an article "Chinese Diplomat Tells West to Consider Russia's Security Concerns Over Ukraine." China, as an independent observer, has clearly stated its opinion on the conflict in Ukraine and warned that continued support of the conflict by the West could lead to Russia strengthening its border.
This comment confirms once again that Russia has a powerful ally in China, and that despite the efforts by the Europeans to persuade official Beijing to their side, the Chinese ruling elite does not change its position. But they are careful not to be drawn into the struggle between Russia and the West. China urges the US to focus more on the internal problems of the country than trying to cover all parts of the world with its very limited resources and a lack of explicit allies, as such.
vestnikkavkaza.net...

Russia, China Add to $400 Billion Gas Deal With Accord
www.bloomberg.com...

China's only dispute with the US is over Taiwan. China also does not see the US as an aggressive occupier
What? Even after the US involvement in the Korea conflict, the Vietnam War, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and on and on and China doesn't see the US as an aggressor nation? Are you serious?

China also depends on the US keep the Islamic Radical threat down and spreading into its own regions

Man, we are sure doing a cracker jack job with this one aren't we?

China never votes on anything unless it is to prevent US aggression. Then it is always NO.

Japan doesn't even have a military. A defense force, yes. A fully functional military, No.

What is the use of continuing. I just think your logic is full of ******.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: smirkley

Interesting article...

Microsoft, Google, Adobe Leave Russia Due to Putin's New Laws

5 Dec 2014,

Tech companies are running away from Russia

Tech companies Microsoft, Google, and Adobe are all giving up on their Russian operations amid a new law requested by President Vladimir Putin and which requires companies to store collected user data on local servers which would obviously become accessible to authorities.

Hmmm.

This is due to Russian laws demanding access to those servers. Tech companies aren't going to accept open server access which is what Russia demands. In the US they can force the gov to get warrants for info. That process is acceptable to the tech boys...but not Russia's connected and constant access demands.

Indeed, there is more going on here than just economic problems or fears of the Russian state.

Tech companies are predominantly leaving because the Russian government, in response to the Snowden leaks, is seeking to take its own control over these servers.

Russia is not the only country seeking to develop its own monitoring of tech companies and the data they handle, but the difference is that most other countries are doing so with transparency and accountability to their public. In Europe it's being done through democratic legal process, with accountability. In Russia it's being done without accountability of any kind, simply because Russia wants the kind of security and access to information other states have without giving their people anything to be happy about.

This is the main reason the tech companies are moving out, although there is clearly going to be a little nervousness about working in Russia anyway given the path the country seems to be going down.

originally posted by: CharlesT

This comment confirms once again that Russia has a powerful ally in China, and that despite the efforts by the Europeans to persuade official Beijing to their side, the Chinese ruling elite does not change its position.

China is in a very difficult position, but it is certainly not showing steadfast support for Russia. It has refused to back Russia several times at the UN.

China is not stupid, it knows that it relies on the outside world for its business. Without exports of cheaply manufactured goods the country would collapse pretty quickly. It doesn't have anything close to a decent market for goods in Russia, and it knows that.

China will stay out of it, and if they pick a side they will pick the international community, upon which it relies.

a reply to: MrSpad

So do you think America would go to war over China grabbing the eastern regions ??

Or sanction China to the point of death ??

I feel extremely amused by the facts that people conceive regarding what goes on in the world.

a reply to: smirkley

Looks like what's happening is that Russia doesn't trust citizen and other information be held in US and NSA servers outside of country

Good for them, I wish I had choice too

Seems like McCain last year was suggesting that large American companies should be forced to suspend or cease operations in Russia.

But companies like BP and Exxon have indicated that they will not be severing ties.

a reply to: CharlesT

Sorry charlie, Mr Spad is correct. It is not very good form to tell a moderator his logic is full of #e either, I would urge against that. Or anyone else for that matter.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: CharlesT

Sorry charlie, Mr Spad is correct. It is not very good form to tell a moderator his logic is full of #e either, I would urge against that. Or anyone else for that matter.

I would say it doesn't matter if they are a mod or not .. all that matters is are they wrong. MrSpad is not wrong. This is a trend with CharlesT in all his posts on all the topics I see him post in. It's very curious.

originally posted by: maxzen2004
a reply to: rickymouse That's true but they don't make any products the world needs, their quality is poor.

So why the hell is US buying Russian rocket engines ??? Weapons are also big export article. This is more political question but still: Russian weapons are in some areas best in the world.
Also please compare quality of Russian and Chines products. Russia will beat China in almost every field. Still is China workshop of the world.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: maxzen2004
a reply to: rickymouse That's true but they don't make any products the world needs, their quality is poor.

Not even the Russian want the junk they make.

As for the OP not only is the economy terrible and the laws out of control but, Putin has a habit of nationalizing companies and putting his buddied in control of them. On the plus side Putin is going to drive Russia so far into the ground that when he is gone and decent leader gets control Russia will be wide open for investment and rebuilding.

Dear Mr. Spade. Probably you did not notice that Russia was on ground when Yeltsin and his Western "advisers" (better term is looters) era ended. From this point Russia is going up. Yes, it is common fate of former eastern block: Capitalism can not work without capitalists and where you can get some? Just switch off lights of law for few years and they will emerge. They first looted our national industry and with fresh money they went to new banking casino. It took only 8 years from 1990 till the casino collapsed and was bailed-out by taxpayers money. This period is called socialism for banks.
So what we have now? Few oligarchs whose fortune is based on stolen national assets and developed by means of corruption and violence (murders). Expropriation of oligarchs seems to me as good idea.

a reply to: JanAmosComenius

Russia does make good missiles, have to give them that.

Back to Russia after Yeltsin: You have desolated country where is law administred by oligarchs and theirs mafias in government from Kremlin to last gubernia. How to implant basic order to society which is governed by rogue elites? It will need some ugly power. You can not root out criminals supported by foreign power by democratical means in dysfunctional society.
Majority of RF citizens now this and they also noticed that under Putin theirs economic situation got better and crime on streets lowered. It is not because propaganda but because personal experience why Putin have such support among citizens. Putin made live much better for average Vasil and Natasha. Can we say this about Obama, Bushes, Clintons?

I think they are just worried about measures Russia might take, such as statalizing select foreign assets in Russia as retaliation for the sanctions. Or they dont deem it cost effective anymore under the current circumstances to operate within Russia.

"You may well be right about everything you stated but China is not going to let Russia go down for the count because they know that after Russia, they are next in the cross hairs. "

Chinas reality is completly different. If they would have conquered Europe and America 30 years ago and subjucated them, China wouldnt have gotten out of those countries what they got out today. Russia is a neighbour but America and the EU are Chinas most important partner on so many levels. The country might seek to keep the peace with Russia, buy up whatever they sell in therms of energy and materials and give friendly support, but they will not go against America. The relations changed drastically since Mao.

originally posted by: maxzen2004
a reply to: rickymouse That's true but they don't make any products the world needs, their quality is poor.

Most importantly is Western Europe's dependency on Russian natural gas. Also, there are specialty audio products made in Russia unavailable elsewhere in the world. It seems certain materials are no longer used in the West but still used there to make transformers, microphones and electronic tubes. Don't forget the vodka and all the Kalashnikov variants.