If true,then Ukraine's government is getting ready to run

Not a Western problem. Western countries should never have gotten involved.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Yeah you guys have posted that info several times in the Ukraine threads - still doesn't make it true.

Remember this Xcatdra.......... Stratfor, please let me spell it out for you S T R A T F O R. Lets find out about this gem of a USA creation regarding Ukraine sputniknews.com...

originally posted by: Dimithae
And I believe getting a passport and citizenship to another country should be sufficient evidence.

Not really no... Nice try on moving the goal post though in order to try and support the claim.

originally posted by: Dimithae
Since when does your president have dual citizenship?

Depends on the country in question and what their laws are. Speaking for the US the President must be an American citizen. The US does not recognize dual citizenship UNLESS the person was born outside of the country and ONLY until their 18th birthday, at which point they must choose.

Which again has nothing to do with East Ukrainians not supporting the pro Russian / Russia occupation forces. You admit to both sides having issue and then you try and spin it where one side is somehow better than the other.

If the bulk of the "Ukrainians" in the East are for Russia then why are the people captured fighting for the rebels Russian citizens?

originally posted by: babybunnies
Not a Western problem. Western countries should never have gotten involved.

and Russia never should have invaded Ukraine. The moment they did that they involved the west.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Yup you guys already tried a thread on that topic and it was debunked. Let me help -

ATS - Stratfor spy chief admits it: the US behind the coup in Ukraine!


Debunked.. maybe you should stick to the op topic instead of trying to drag all your failed debunked arguments into this one.


Here is the interview in question in Kommersat =
Translated link - "The interests of Russia and the United States against Ukraine are incompatible with each other"

Original language link -
«Интересы РФ и США в отношении Украины несовместимы друг с другом»


Why is it debunked? My response in that thread -

Highlight exactly where Friedman said the US was behind it. There is nothing in his interview that suggests / states what your title claims. What I do see is Sputnik insinuating he made the comment in the first paragraph and then changes it by stating Friedman says the Russians claim the US was behind the coup.

You will notice the OP, instead of refuting my comment, personally attacked me and then failed to address that fatal flaw in the lie.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

No need for me to push it when Nuland calls this man "Our Guy"...

And going by your logic, all of these people must be NAzi's too...







Or are they waving just as the man in your posted pic is doing.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Which again has nothing to do with East Ukrainians not supporting the pro Russian / Russia occupation forces.

What? Are you forgetting the fact that the people of Crimea had a referendum where they decided that they wanted to join Russian Federation?

And you forgetting that the rebels are mostly ordinary Russians that live in Eastern Ukraine? Or are you under the impression that they are a professionals?

a reply to: paraphi

How about this?
youtu.be... and this

youtu.be... and if you don't like RT then here is another one of the same

youtu.be... And finally this

youtu.be... Now I don't know about anyone else,but those don't look like happy people to me. I sure wouldn't want them outside my office.

a reply to: Nikola014

Considering the vote in Crimea was held AFTER Russia invaded, the vote is invalid and illegal. Don't take my word for it though.. Feel free to ask the entire world with the exception of 6 countries why they didn't recognize Russian action in Crimea.


This part right here -

originally posted by: Nikola014
And you forgetting that the rebels are mostly ordinary Russians that live in Eastern Ukraine? Or are you under the impression that they are a professionals?

Completely removes the rug underneath your feet. You are stating they are Russians living in Ukraine. You are stating the rebels fighting for "independence" are in fact Russians and not Ukrainians. Had an actual lawful vote been held we would most likely see the same results when those referendums were held before - The majority of the people wanted to remain a part of Ukraine.

again, that's an invasion.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

sputniknews.com...

So have anything that isn't run by the Russian government?

Sputnik is an international multimedia news service launched on 10 November 2014 by Rossiya Segodnya, an agency wholly owned and operated by the Russian government, which was created by a Decree of the President of Russia on 9 December 2013.[1] Sputnik replaces the RIA Novosti news agency and the Voice of Russia international radio broadcaster.

en.wikipedia.org...

It would help...

You admit to both sides having issue and then you try and spin it where one side is somehow better than the other.

a reply to: Xcathdra

What are you talking about? I didn't spin anything about any side being better. I simply stated that it looks like the Ukrainian government has an alternative plan for the end. Which they think is coming by the looks of it.

By the way, I can't seem to find any leader that has dual citizenship but Ukraine's. Why is that?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Hmm.

If making sure your people are safe with all the riots that has been going on in Ukraine with the civil war is called invasion, then go ahead, let's call it that way. But you are forgetting that the Russian troops that "invaded" Ukraine, were already there.

And just because the entire western world is calling that referendum un-valid, then it must mean something right? Not like they are controlled by the same people.

Completely removes the rug underneath your feet. You are stating they are Russians living in Ukraine. You are stating the rebels fighting for "independence" are in fact Russians and not Ukrainians. Had an actual lawful vote been held we would most likely see the same results when those referendums were held before - The majority of the people wanted to remain a part of Ukraine.

What? You do realize that majority of the people living in the Eastern Ukraine, are RUSSIANS especially in Crimea? What you call illegal, i call legal. Everybody has a choice in deciding in what country they want to live in.

You know what i call illegal? The overthrow of the legally elected president Yanuckovich. But i don't hear anybody complaining about that.

A whole lot of shaking going on with the Empire of Chaos .

Financial Collapse Leads To War
By Dmitry Orlov
Scanning the headlines in the western mainstream press, and then peering behind the one-way mirror to compare that to the actual goings-on, one can't but get the impression that America's propagandists, and all those who follow in their wake, are struggling with all their might to concoct rationales for military action of one sort or another, be it supplying weapons to the largely defunct Ukrainian military, or staging parades of US military hardware and troops in the almost completely Russian town of Narva, in Estonia, a few hundred meters away from the Russian border, or putting US “advisers” in harm's way in parts of Iraq mostly controlled by Islamic militants.

The strenuous efforts to whip up Cold War-like hysteria in the face of an otherwise preoccupied and essentially passive Russia seems out of all proportion to the actual military threat Russia poses. (Yes, volunteers and ammo do filter into Ukraine across the Russian border, but that's about it.) Further south, the efforts to topple the government of Syria by aiding and arming Islamist radicals seem to be backfiring nicely. But that's the pattern, isn't it? What US military involvement in recent memory hasn't resulted in a fiasco? Maybe failure is not just an option, but more of a requirement?

www.informationclearinghouse.info... And yes it is a alternative source for what is going on . Even the State Dept. uses social media and it will be a long haul for tptb to get a grip on there once upon a time control of the News we listen to . Kerry figures it's only a matter of throwing more $$$ at the problem but I am thinking that Hillary knows that wont work . Their wheels are coming off and the only wheel nuts left in their tool kit is war .

a reply to: Dimithae

youtu.be... And finally this

You may be interested in seeing this, as it is very different from what your youtube video says.

Protesters Urge Kiev to Shift Tactics in Fight Against Moscow

Dozens of protesters, including members of the Ukrainian military, gathered inside a presidential administrative building in Kiev on Tuesday to express frustration with the ongoing fighting in eastern Ukraine. The group, which has complained about a lack of supplies on the front lines and poor strategy, also demanded to speak with President Petro Poroshenko. Some attempted to make a statement on television, and one of the protesters live-streamed the incident online, which more than 10,000 watched.

The protest was led by the All-Ukrainian Battalion Brotherhood, a group of volunteer soldiers and Euro Maidan activists who want Russia to stop meddling in Ukraine’s affairs. They were hoping to influence Poroshenko and defense ministers to change their combat plans against pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine. According to the Itar-Tass news service, some protesters have asked Poroshenko to introduce martial law and would like the defense minister to resign, saying his tactics have been ineffective.

www.newsweek.com...

Seems your source cherry picked the article for there own narrative to use instead of what really was happening.

a reply to: Xcathdra

And how did the US become its own country? By people appointing themselves as heads of state and writing a constitution and declaring us free. If you look back in Crimea's history,you see that since the break up of the USSR Crimea has been trying to either go back to Russia or become independent. Its only illegal for the rest of the world.For Crimeans its what they have been wanting,and they still aren't sorry for it.

originally posted by: Dimithae
By the way, I can't seem to find any leader that has dual citizenship but Ukraine's. Why is that?

probably because you so desperately want to paint Porshenko as evil that you will repeat anything without first taking the time to verify the info as fact.

As an example Porshenko was boron in Odessa, Ukraine. I have found nothing attributing dual citizenship to him so if you have a link share it so we can read it.

What I did find was this -
Jan 2015 - Dual Citizenship Is The Key To Reforms In Ukraine

He appointed people to ministerial positions. Prior to that becoming official those individuals were required to apply for Ukrainian citizenship while also giving up their original citizenship.


Head of state aside, Ukraine law prevents dual citizenship. It does NOT prevent a Ukrainian citizen from holding citizenship in another country. You guys are a bit lost on this topic so let me try and help.

Canada has its own immigration laws and allows for dual citizenship, even if Ukrainian law does not allow it. Ukrainian law does not apply to Canada any more than Canadian law applies to Ukraine. Depending on the facts a Ukrainian citizen who moves to another country that allows dual citizenship can keep their Ukrainian citizenship upon returning to Ukrainian by revoking the other nations citizenship.


Just like Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, has done.

a reply to: Dimithae

Flag and Star! When you see the top leaders of the 'government'
arranging their own families' escapes, you know it's getting bad.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Seriously?

This coming from a guy who alone created over 10 threads that are EXTREMELY anti-Putin/Russia oriented? What's the impression, laughing out loud?

a reply to: Nikola014

Russia has never supplied the evidence to the UN, as they were asked to do time and again, to support their claims justifying their invasion of Ukraine.

Secondly no the Russian troops invading Ukraine were not already there. Troops from Russia without insignia were used. Secondly the agreement with Russia prohibits them from moving into the country side and seizing territory.

You can try and spin it all you want but the fact remains Russia invaded Ukraine and illegally occupied Crimea and parts of East Ukraine.

If you are going to make claims do your research -
This is what Russia is allowed -

The treaty also allowed Russia to maintain up to 25,000 troops, 24 artillery systems, 132 armored vehicles, and 22 military planes on the Crimean peninsula.

Here is the agreement -
Ukraine
Russia

Not surprisingly the Russian link is 404'd.


You will note any changes to deployment must be submitted to Ukraine for review AND approval. Also note Russians are not allowed into the countryside with weapons.

a reply to: Nikola014

If making sure your people are safe with all the riots that has been going on in Ukraine with the civil war is called invasion,

That is because as soon as Russia sent armed troops into the sovereignty of Ukraine they invaded.

But you are forgetting that the Russian troops that "invaded" Ukraine, were already there.

How many times does this need to be rehashed...Putin admitted to sending the little green men to Crimea...not into Crimea, as there is a difference.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday that Russian forces had been deployed to Crimea last month to support local defense teams, the first time he has admitted such involvement by Russia.

www.businessinsider.com...

So yes they did have troops there...Vlad just sent the ones he knew would get the job done from Russia.