The End Times Event - Pulling together the pieces

For me, if there is going to be an End Times (I believe that answer is yes for personal reasons not theological ones), then so far this is how I feel they might fall out:

1. We see Damascus fall.
2. We see Israel forced to make a peace treaty.
3. If we see a Pre-Trib Rapture, it will be between 1 and 2 in that time frame, and if it occurs, it will take and leave surprising people. There will be many who call themselves Christian who will remain here.
4. The Day of the Lord catastrophe follows the surrender of Israel.
5. Beginning of judgments.
6. AC emerges and pulls world together. He already has immense credit after forcing Israel surrender treaty. He will not be openly the AC yet.
7. AC declares himself God and ushers in Beast system One World Order and Religion. Wrath begins? Mid-Trib Rapture and Day of the Lord might be here instead of 4 (Maybe).
8. Persecution of the saints and the faithful Jews who fled Jerusalem. This is why I say that Christians are left. They didn't believe, not really, but the events since and the Rapture have led them to faith along with others who did not believe. But it's harder to prove faith now. They are Tribulation Saints.
9. Wrath
10. Jesus returns to make sure not everyone dies. Judges sheep and goats. This is definitely by here that we all meet Him in the Rapture.

But that's really loose and I didn't look anything up so it may be out of order somewhere and I don't even know if there will be Rapture or when.

As for other traditions, they all have their versions and prophecies. And they are fascinating too. I think that Ragnarok was actually supposed to have come to pass last winter ...

a reply to: Develo

The question.

What makes you think the events in Biblical prophecies are not yet fulfilled when it is clearly said they would be fulfilled within a generation?


Answer.

That's not what Jesus Christ said. You need to reread Matthew 24.

In Matthew 24 he was answering this question.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

A 3 part question. And this is one of the answers to the sign of the end of the world question and when shall these things be question.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Absolutely no way that was possible in the first century AD. The first century AD was not the end of the world that Jesus Christ was alluding to.

Also this section of Matthew 24 is a answer to the end of the world question. Since there has been no Jewish temple since 70 AD then the end of the world has never come. It's still a future event.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

And another thing. We need to clarify the length of time this "generation" is.

The verses.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The length of time from the beginning to the end of the Apocalypse is the "generation". But how long is that time? Looking at verse 34 there could be multiple interpretations of that. Could be the standard 25-35 years that normally is the meaning of generation but look at the verse again. The word generation is not being used as a measure of time. It's denoting a group of people. The measure of time in that sentence is "shall not pass". The sentence is denoting the lifetimes of a group of people. Or the longest living representative of that group.

Today the average lifetime of humans is given as around 78 years old. With exceptions living as long as 110 to 120 years old.

So if that is the case then the rebirth of Israel in 1948 cannot be written off yet as a end time event. In May it will only be 67 years old. That's still well inside the possible meanings of verse 34.

a reply to: ntech

The other school of thought on the birth of Israel is that the clock did not start until they took control of Jerusalem.

Either way, the timing of a generation still is not up yet. Although we would have to see the end soon if 1948 is the beginning of that clock.

a reply to: qmantoo

How to answer your questions? Hmmmnnn. After studying the question "Are we in the end times"? I'm convinced that we're in the preliminaries of the Apocalypse already. As I pointed out in my previous post in this thread it's quite possible that the rebirth of Israel in 1948 was an early end time event. One of the first fig leaves of the fig tree parable. And the generation has been running ever since in a 80 to 120 year timeframe.

So to answer questions 1 and 2 I would say I'm looking for the opening of the 6th seal of Revelation. I think seals 1 through 5 are have opened already. What I'm working on is what causes the 6th seal to open? So as of now here 's what I'm looking for. Though I may not have the order of the events correct though.

1. The appearance of the branch. Also known as the messenger of the covenant. The Jews call him the Ben Joseph messiah. According to Zechariah the branches precede the coming of the Lord. They are his personal assistants. And each of them were to build a temple to the Lord. That would be one event.

2. A sudden peace in the middle east. In Matthew 24 he makes a curious statement about his return to the earth.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

After thinking about it I realized what he could be talking about. In verse 15 he had already did a reference to the book of Daniel. What if this is another Daniel reference. Specifically Daniel 8.

In Daniel 8 there is a end time war between a ram and a goat. The ram has it's 2 horns broken off before it is killed. Leaving a carcass. So just before his return is Jesus Christ referring to a peace in the middle east after 2 nations had been conquered there? If so then what is happening there currently is nothing else than the days of the tribulation of the carcass. Meaning it ends just before his return.

That's what I'm looking for right now.

a reply to: qmantoo

The mass exodus Im expecting is better known as the rapture, and Im expecting it on 9/16/2016. My thread on the "12/21/2012 Red herring" goes into detail on how I arrived at that date. People like to quote the common dispensational misconception, "Jesus said no man knows the day or hour of the rapture",...Wrong. Jesus said no man know the exact day of His return, since He will cut the tribulation short by a few hours to a day, for the sake of the elect. The Rapture, however will be announced before hand by the call of the Arch Angel (possibly hour's notice).

Im watching the activity going on in Mosul, since that city is within the boundries of ancient Nineveh. Taken together, Zeph 2:12-15, Isaiah 47:7, and Revelation 17:7&8, all point to Nineveh as the location of Mystery Babylon.

Im also expecting a war to break out on 3/21/2015 (I have a thread on that too), that might solidify a centralized power structure in Mosul/Nineveh.

What I believe? Simply believe that Jesus died for your sins today, and save yourself from a world of pain come 9/16/2016.

a reply to: ketsuko

I would expect the 7 year agreement of Daniel 9-27 and 11-6 to be signed in 6 years approximately if the generation is based on the average lifetime of those being born in 1947. If it's the longest lived person of that group of people that could add years to that however.

From the previous few posts, it all sounds rather like a visitation from aliens but I will acknowledge that some folks believe that this will happen as it is described and by The Man Himself NOT aliens.

So, assuming that the Rapture occurs and that the faithful are all removed, what will it all look like? Does everyone just disappear - poof - just like that or do they have to go somewhere to get taken off the Earth? If there is a big show and Jesus comes and everyone sees him, then presumably he stops somewhere to pick up those he has chosen? These are very relevant details which need to be thrashed out before the even otherwise no-one will know where to go, unless they will intuitively just know the meeting place (reference Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind)

What I am trying to understand are the mechanics of it all, how it will happen. Because if these details are not known, there will be a great deal of panic and confusion at the time when it all happens and yet, if it happens at one place, a lot of people will get crushed in the rush.

Like any large organised gathering, there will be a terrible headache in terms of organisation and getting the right people to the right places at the right time.

I am imagining it portrayed as a movie and how it would be shown.

The point I am making is that this is a massive event with millions of people involved moving around the country/globe, it is not your average football match exodous. To anyone looking at this from the outside of your belief system, it looks impossible to take part in this kind of event.

To those who believe this will happen, how do you think you will get there and get picked up?

originally posted by: qmantoo
From the previous few posts, it all sounds rather like a visitation from aliens but I will acknowledge that some folks believe that this will happen as it is described and by The Man Himself NOT aliens.

So, assuming that the Rapture occurs and that the faithful are all removed, what will it all look like? Does everyone just disappear - poof - just like that or do they have to go somewhere to get taken off the Earth? If there is a big show and Jesus comes and everyone sees him, then presumably he stops somewhere to pick up those he has chosen? These are very relevant details which need to be thrashed out before the even otherwise no-one will know where to go, unless they will intuitively just know the meeting place (reference Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind)



To those who believe this will happen, how do you think you will get there and get picked up?

my understanding is that this will happen suddenly and quietly, 'like a thief in the night'. TPTB will have to scramble for an explanation. muslims might say Allah is cleansing the earth. Western secularists might attribute to UFOs/aliens (lots of the intelligentsia in the west believe in aliens, I think). Some might blame some interdimensional event that sucked a bunch of people out. (you know scientists, they can come up with a scientific-sounding explanation for everything.)
IIRC Jesus doesnt actually land on earth (this event is not the 'second coming'), he swoops down to the atmosphere and calls us up, so the remnant will have no idea what just happened.

one theory is that the angels will fly down and grab us (the word 'rapture' is related to 'raptor', as in bird of prey). The parable of the wheat and tares tells of angels being the harvesters.

a reply to: qmantoo

The rapture will be a sudden disapearance of anyone who believes in Christ. There is no specified location it will happen on the Feast of Trumpets, which is the 180th day of the year after the vernal equinox. Just before the rapture there will be a world wide alert by the arch Angel, then the Rapture will occur when the trumpet is blown.

It will be a world wide event, it will not go unnoticed, and it will not come as a suprise.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: qmantoo

The rapture will be a sudden disapearance of anyone who believes in Christ.

I think you meant "fundamentalist Christians. Most Christians don't believe in a literal rapture. Like they don't believe in literal interpretation of the whole Bible simply because anyone can easily see the allegoric nature of many passages.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: qmantoo

and it will not come as a suprise.

disagree.
'No man knows the day or the hour'.
We do know times and seasons, so a lot of us will be expecting it, but the exact event will still be a surprise, especially to the nonbelievers.

a reply to: works4dhs

The 2nd advent is likened to Noah's flood of water, however it will be a flood of fire. Jesus did not say the rapture was like a flood, nor did He say that no man would know the day or hour. The day and hour that no man knows, is the day that Jesus cuts short the tribulation to deliver His elect. Jesus didnt even mention the Rapture in Matt 24 & 25 until He spoke the Parable of the Ten Virgins. Its a common misconception in Christianity.

In Matt 25, the ones who are taken while sleeping, or in the field, or grinding at the millstone are non-believers, and it happens 7 years (minus upto one day) after the Rapture. Its called the Baptism of Fire, when the wheat and tares are separated.

a reply to: qmantoo

Well, I guess I could put the pieces together for you. One thing to remember here is that end time prophecy in the bible is like a jigsaw puzzle. Everybody there only saw a part of what was going on. The trick is to find and put the pieces together.

So you want to see the rapture in the bible eh?

Here goes.

Matthew 24
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Since I believe verse 28 is a Daniel reference here is a few verses from that.

Daniel 8
2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Daniel 11
2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.
4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

Then Revelation 6 and 7.
Rev. 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev. 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.