Where's the PAK-FA and the J-20?

a reply to: JimTSpock

It's not a bad first attempt, and will be dangerous in a WVR fight. You don't want to underestimate it, but at the same time you don't want to overestimate it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The Chinese J-20 is a bit of a strange looking plane and is bigger and longer than both the T-50 and F-22, China could have 24 J-20s by 2020, not a big number and the T-50 is getting expensive so I doubt Russia will be able to afford many of them.

In April 2014 an Asian government source told IHS Jane's that China would have 24 J-20s by 2020, which if realised, could constitute a first operational regiment. This would indicate that IOC may occur in the 2017-18 timeframe.

www.janes.com...

Stealth plays an important role in the design of the J-20 so plasma technology is used in the various exposed moving joints of the vertical tail fins and forward canards.

Plasma technology?...

www.militaryfactory.com...

a reply to: JimTSpock

I like it though.

That's par for the course. I suspect that with these being first attempts costs are a lot higher than they're admitting to.

Some people do take the PAK-FA and other new Russian airframe programmes seriously enough that several European countries are running a crash project to re-evaluate their ground-based air surveillance and interceptor control capabilities against what is surmised about the Russian 4.5 and 5 gen aircraft.

a reply to: Pirvonen

Oh absolutely. It's not going to be an F-22, but against the legacy fleets and surveillance it'll be pretty dangerous. Add in the new missiles in development and the legacy fleets are in trouble.

The biggest limit in manoeuvrability is the pink squishy thing in a suit that could at a pinch hang on for 9G in a sustained turn.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I`ve been reading on the K-74m and m2 and I`m a little bit familiar with the R-77m, definitely not modeled after the AK-47 design approach. They seem just as advanced as the latest AIM-9X and AIM-120 variants although still not as quick as the Meteor. I personally would not enjoy any of the above fired at me but that might just be a weird personal glitch.

Those legacy aircraft might still find some life in the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels, but those guys have been rocking 4th gens long enough. If the militaries wanted to sell the public a 5th then 6th gen fighter then that's were they ought to start.

a reply to: StratosFear

The K-74m is a nice missile, but the K-77M and K-77ME are downright terrifying.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I was watching YouTube videos of the PAK-FA and it's a much more complex and well thought-out aircraft than most in the west want to acknowledge. Stuff like those adjustable vortex generators/half canards, the 3-D thrust vectoring with plans to at least test F-22 style nozzles, those all-moving vertical stabilizers, that tiny front profile, the list goes on...

Ditto for its missile payload

a reply to: Barnalby

They stuck to their philosophy of super maneuverability instead of trying to beat us at stealth. So while it won't ever be as stealthy as Western aircraft it's at least as deadly to older aircraft, and when it goes WVR against an F-22 it'll prove an interesting fight.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Using that bastion of aerodynamic accuracy and accurate aerodynamic modeling: kerbal space program; I whipped up an F-22 and a PAK-FA in my free time. The Pak FA, even in KSP-ized form is an incredible design blending inherent stability with an inherent stability and responsiveness that the KSP-ized F-22 lacked. Given the presumeable gaps between their fly-by-wire systems and ours, that makes total sense to me, and yeah, it would be an "interesting" match-up to say the least.

I'm sure USAF brass are anxiously awaiting the first joint exercises/war games with India's T-50's (or South Korea's, if they end up pulling the trigger).

There's also a big part of me that thinks that Japan's low-key tinkering with the ATD-X will end up producing the plane that meets (or beats!) the F-22.

a reply to: Barnalby
It would be very interesting if the Korean KAI KF-X and Japanese ATD-X were either combined into a single airframe or shared some development items across both types. If there are any two nations in Asia that could pull it off it would be those two together.

LEE.

The K-74m is a nice missile, but the K-77M and K-77ME are downright terrifying.

Just Wiki,ed it.60 degree off targeting now that's getting scarey.Wonder how far its going to push pilots workload under higher stress turns and G loadings.With the next gen looking at AI or partial AI be because of taking the heavier computing off the pilots mind.?

a reply to: Blackfinger

This might be heresy on a US-oriented forum, but damned if the Soviets/Russians haven't continuously held a lead on us in terms of missile technology ever since the dawn of the cold war, when the R-7 was blasting SUV-sized payloads into orbit while we were lucky if our Redstones could get a tin can the size of an isetta above 60 miles.

The only systems I can think of that we've fielded that have beaten their slavic counterparts are our low-observable cruise missiles and some of our SLBM's.

They must have gotten all of the good scientists from Peenemunde

a reply to: Barnalby

"Impossible! Our Germans are better than their Germans."

Couldn't resist quoting from The Right Stuff

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thought youd like this

Forgot about this thread. Russia has cut their initial order to 12, and India cut their order to less than 100.

...but it has got nice stripes.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
I thought India recently was informed they wouldn't see a PAK fighter until 2040. Can't find the link where I read that. Could have meant with the proper engine and all. I could be way off too.

Yeah ..you never find that time line

India field the First PAK FA Squadron before 2020 ..

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Forgot about this thread. Russia has cut their initial order to 12, and India cut their order to less than 100.

No idea about Russia, But Indian orders downsized

as first it's reported 250 PAK FA Variants, then it downsized into 144 units, just month ago unconfirmed reports states IAF would buy only 67 PAK FA

However the FGFA , the Indian Variant of modified PAK FA numbers still at 147 units.. at first it was 250