Where's the PAK-FA and the J-20?

For years, now, we've heard about the 'superior' range, speed and agility of the PAK-FA. They had already beaten U.S. Stealth with superior radars and their missiles just outclassed anything in the West's inventory.

Not so blatant bragging for the J-20, but watch out, they kept rolling out proto-type after proto-type all pushing the U.S. capabilities to the 'limit'.

Fast forward and what do we see? F-22 and F-35 unified training with 35's coming off the line-addressing the issues as they occur, just as they should.

PAK-FA? Nope...India must be pissed...

J-20? Not a peep.

From what I can see, the gap between the U.S. and the rest is growing, not shrinking.

Do I have this right?

a reply to: nwtrucker

The PAK FA seems to be on schedule at least...

Russian Air Force to receive fifth-generation fighters in 2016 as scheduled — company

MOSCOW, February 2. /TASS/. Russian United Aircraft Corporation will supply to the Air Force Sukhoi PAK FA T-50 fifth-generation fighters in 2016, the corporation’s press service told TASS on Monday.

"We shall begin the supplies in 2016, according to the schedule," the corporation said.

Source

originally posted by: nwtrucker
For years, now, we've heard about the 'superior' range, speed and agility of the PAK-FA. They had already beaten U.S. Stealth with superior radars and their missiles just outclassed anything in the West's inventory.

Not so blatant bragging for the J-20, but watch out, they kept rolling out proto-type after proto-type all pushing the U.S. capabilities to the 'limit'.

Fast forward and what do we see? F-22 and F-35 unified training with 35's coming off the line-addressing the issues as they occur, just as they should.

PAK-FA? Nope...India must be pissed...

J-20? Not a peep.

From what I can see, the gap between the U.S. and the rest is growing, not shrinking.

Do I have this right?

well china has five prototypes now of the J-20. Its still very early in the testing phase for that jet and they still dont have reliable engines that will even supercruise the aircraft yet.

Russia has the PAKFA in flight testing similar to where the F-35 is, although they dont use concurrency so they dont have anymore than the test articles. however the government agreed to send the jet to the service starting next year in mass production.

The US still has a 10-15 year lead on anyone else in the world at least when it comes to fighter aircraft. Even if the J-20 and PAKFA come online in the next decade, they are no match for the raptor, and a peer to the F-35.

And yeah, India is pissed. lol

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I hope they hold their breath....

I thought India recently was informed they wouldn't see a PAK fighter until 2040. Can't find the link where I read that. Could have meant with the proper engine and all. I could be way off too.

Given the current political climate, my guess is... that's what they want you to think.

a reply to: CovertAgenda

Hmmm, maybe. Yet, there's one thing that both Russia and China excel at and that's crowing!

It's been damn quite for a while now.

At least China is benefitting big time from the low oil prices. Russia? Hurting big time. The quality of those early units in 2016? Well, better them than us flying them.....

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: nwtrucker

The PAK FA seems to be on schedule at least...

Russian Air Force to receive fifth-generation fighters in 2016 as scheduled — company

MOSCOW, February 2. /TASS/. Russian United Aircraft Corporation will supply to the Air Force Sukhoi PAK FA T-50 fifth-generation fighters in 2016, the corporation’s press service told TASS on Monday.

"We shall begin the supplies in 2016, according to the schedule," the corporation said.

Source

Actually i remember they werte to get a shipment of them this year so they pushed back th e delivery date then another year.

a reply to: nwtrucker

The T-50s engine has begun test stand trials heading for flight trials late next year or early 2017. They're currently using AL-41 engines. That will give it super cruise abilities and better maneuverability.

a reply to: nwtrucker


I like this infograph. But even this is presumptuous.
full size

a reply to: aholic

Good to see Sukhoi strokes their gov't like LM strokes ours.....

Does anyone else think that 5 prototypes is a bit much? What gives?

a reply to: aholic

No. It's not five different types, it's five base models. It's no different than we're doing with the F-35.

a reply to: Zaphod58

They're missing the VTOL variant though

a reply to: Barnalby

That's because they're still laughing at us for doing designing one airplane for the missions and cramming a lift fan into it.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: aholic

No. It's not five different types, it's five base models. It's no different than we're doing with the F-35.

i think the raptor had 8 if im not mistaken.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Barnalby

That's because they're still laughing at us for doing designing one airplane for the missions and cramming a lift fan into it.

The other aircraft still under wraps would wipe the smirk off those faces I`m sure, Sukhoi, Mikoyan, Chengdu and Shenyang would give a collective "F#$% it" and just go home.

Any idea what the test pilots and engineers working on these babies think about the new Russian and Chinese aircraft? I`d bet more worry goes towards the alleged long rang bombers either country is developing.

a reply to: StratosFear

The US has a long and storied history of pooh-poohing Soviet/Russian hardware only to receive a royal humbling once we actually have to go against the stuff.

Take a look at what they've been able to engineer vs us in terms of ICBMs and hypersonics (the Topol-m is a terrifying piece of hardware) as well as their SAMs, cruise, and anti-ship missiles, not to mention their submarines.

They simply take a very different tact compared to us when it comes to aircraft, aiming for 85-95% of the capabilities of our stuff at 1/3 to 1/2 the price so they can build/field them in larger numbers. A famous Russian once said that quantity has a quality all it's own, and that philosophy has proven its worth time and time again over the last 80 years or so.

The Chinese stuff on the other hand looks like flashy, under-engineered garbage, and there's a reason why the PAK-FA and other Sukhoi products dominate the export market.

originally posted by: Barnalby
a reply to: StratosFear

The US has a long and storied history of pooh-poohing Soviet/Russian hardware only to receive a royal humbling once we actually have to go against the stuff.

Take a look at what they've been able to engineer vs us in terms of ICBMs and hypersonics (the Topol-m is a terrifying piece of hardware) as well as their SAMs, cruise, and anti-ship missiles, not to mention their submarines.

They simply take a very different tact compared to us when it comes to aircraft, aiming for 85-95% of the capabilities of our stuff at 1/3 to 1/2 the price so they can build/field them in larger numbers. A famous Russian once said that quantity has a quality all it's own, and that philosophy has proven its worth time and time again over the last 80 years or so.

The Chinese stuff on the other hand looks like flashy, under-engineered garbage, and there's a reason why the PAK-FA and other Sukhoi products dominate the export market.

Really? YEah russia has some great systems that are cheap but have a pretty decent fail rate in comparison to US versons. Ask zaphod he can give you a great comparison.

All ICBM's are hypersonic when re entering the atmosphere. So even there. Also the s-500 sam they have a countermeasure for it already i am sure. A SAM is only as good as its detection envelope and normally sams are easy to spoof with drones. you send in Drones first. they get waxed then you send out th e newest Anti radar/sam missiles to home in and seek the launcher. they can also loiter a little to search for it as well.

Their anti ship missiles the sub sonic ones are pretty good but not in vincible. US naval radar goes to wave top level these days the SEARAM is made to intercept these out from 1 -11 miles with a 95 percent hit rate for each missile/interceptor individually. then you have the CIWS and in a few years the LAser point defense.

Russians do great subs i agree,but they are not as stealthy as you are lead to believe. Ocassionally when the navy needs a boost in funding they let a sub pop up and say they didnt detect it. Hypersonic torpedo? very loud very short range and is dumb fire basically. It has to slow down to change course,and most of th e time if it changes directions it loses th ebubble in front of it and thats that.

a reply to: StratosFear

There's far more concern over the new Russian missiles than the platforms themselves. Two new air to air missiles are going to render the legacy fleet almost irrelevant.