Theories of Magic

a reply to: Baddogma

I wrote a somewhat exhaustive reply yesterday but decided to not post it.

I know a few things but I'm not qualified enough to really speak about this subject with confidence.

You've got a private message.

a reply to: BlueMule

I think that all three basic ideas that you are presenting here derive from an intellectual perspective.

I must admit though that I have not read Marcel Mauss , Emile Durkheim or Lucien Levy-Brulh. However, I have read James Frazer (in particular "The Golden Bough") and totally disagreed with everything that he wrote in that book. Perhaps it was the fact that he regularly wrote derogatory comments about the irish and refered to cultures who had unusual beliefs and religions as "savages".

I cannot help noticing though that many comments so far posted have echoed Frazer's argument that "Magic does not work because when it does it is really Science". I do not share this idea.

Ironically, it was a freemason that once mentioned The Golden Bough to me. He said that it was a book well worth reading. Leaving aside the bad taste that the book left in my mouth, I realised that Frazer had nothing to offer to people looking to go on the spiritual path or study magic. In fact he despised the topic so much that he had to write about it. It also made me realise that the average freemason that I came across were mostly interested in the paraphernalia and dressing up than actual occult study.

Science is like a castaway brother of Magic ; or more precisely a rogue magician who has lost sight of the inter-connection of all things. Hence , the first thing that this rogue did was to separate one art into many unconnected fragments. He brought about separate "sciences" such as Biology, Chemistry, Mathematics; Physics, and so on and then he added a few "...ologys" to impress.

Magic is about our ability to change our environment with our will.Science cannot achieve this ; water will boil at 100 degrees centigrade and freeze at zero degrees centigrade and that is that. But for a magician, water can boil at a completly different temperature and everything is possible. After all , the magician can connect to everything around his or her person.

a reply to: BlueMule
Magic is potentially everywhere it can not be owned but it can be known, magic and love have a lot in common. One could learn to differentiate between magic and its bi products. Not much can really be said about magic, because what is said about it is not magic. One can only insinuate magic. That is where religion and science often go wrong they tend to say they are experts of their subject matter. Where is the magic in that?

a reply to: BlueMule You are attempting to classify "magic" as a perception and assume there is a separation of religion and science. The latter two concepts are not exclusive.

One of the favorite media icons of atheists is Neil deGrasse Tyson. In a Big Think episode some years ago, he clarified that there is no conflict between science and religion, and that it's only a minority of religious people that have any conflict with science. bigthink.com...

Another category you didn't include are the Martial Arts involving "Chi" or "Qi". Often people ask for a physical demonstration of "supernatural" effects and expect some sort of Chris Angel levitation or someone generally pulling rabbits out of a hat. Many skeptics argue against Iron Palm and Iron Shirt demonstrations, but I've yet to see a skeptic balance himself on a spear. This particular manifestation of "magic" has been neatly sectioned off by some people into the "movie fantasy" category and many continue to not realize that public demonstrations are very real examples of bending the laws of physics.

So overall, your attempt to separate "magic" into "theories" is actually an attempt to create a separation between magic, religion, and science, when no such separation exists.

This is a very fun post, I am very interested in Magic, Magick, Alchemy, Mysticism, etc... Hermeticism anyone?

I agree with Laughing God about many of his statements if not all.

As far as Mysticism vs Magic I would consider Mysticism is the pursuit of scientific discovery when applied to magic. Magic of course in the sense of wielding abilities/psychic power/influence/all phenomena natural/supranatural/luck/chaos/synchronicity. To give you a sense of how that relationship would work, consider that the scientific method would change as our consciousness does, in other words the mind itself would be able to validate existing hypothesis without the need for forum, etc, IF and WHEN the mind becomes sharp enough to do so.

Someone here has stated something along the lines of science being a far cast off sister to magic, and this is kind of where I am going. Science in a sense is considered absolute objectivity of the working of the physical world, however the application of these values have been far removed from their original purpose which was to absolute objectivity to the human experience in totality.

In other words, Mysticism is ABSOLUTE objectivity. It is a level of objectivity that provides knowledge through direct experience by the sharpening of our intuition as well as our various inner processes, of which we actually have a massive amount. In a way it can hold hands with science, for although the mind would be able to differentiate between its different states, we already have FUN tools such as our logical processes that allow us to retain memory of such unknowable experiences.

Engaging in mysticism:
Meditating on Breath(Vipassana) Meditating on the existance of various emotions(primarily difficult ones)
Invoking emotions for extended periods of time during meditation
Meditating on the Randomness of Thought(And learning to control)

It may seem as though Mysticism is redundant and repetitive when faced with the exercises that one may find, but If you can carry the excitement you have for magic into the admittedly daunting task of discovering your true mind, you might have what it takes to become a true wizard.

What helps is to be humbled, and a map.

Here is my personal metaphor, which helps me understand the world and its underlying processes and how I can interact with it more consciously. In a way, I accept all belief centered viewpoints, as they usually fit snuggly with my perception like a well placed puzzle piece, however I understand that some are positive and some are negative. I consider mine to be a somewhat more positive version of the MATRIX enslavement ideas. I say this to offer a more positive explanation to the questions that such a paradigm would raise. They may not be true for you, but they could be one day if you choose so.

Anyways

MAGIC

We are sealed into a human experience. We were previously some kind of higher consciousness entity, but for the sake of multiplying our collective consciousness as well as creating new forms of existence, we created an experiment which would allow our true(higher) minds to disconnect with the experience we were creating. This is what creates unforgettable moments, the urge to hold on to beauty at all cost, even though the higher mind knows it is infinitely there. On one hand you want things and require joy and experiences and on the other hand there is a part of you that knows that none of this matters. It is the fusion of these aspects of the human seal which will unlock and fulfill the original wish of our preeminent selves. However when we return to being ONE we will be a very large sense of ONEness. Many One's all being one.

Linear time, karmic ties, these are all things that are new to our experience as souls. So in turn, they are the qualities that are expanding, and that require the most presence and work. We have a deep sadness when we turn to our self that says "it is okay" sometimes it is more of a "nothing matters " at first but once confronted, the magic begins. This lonely self can actually reveal itself to be incredibly robust and open once enough time is spent here. Becoming familiar and comfortable with this emptiness is the first step towards mysticism and understanding magic. Most of what I am saying is true for me, but here is one thing that I believe applies to us all.

Being Human at all is a Miracle and the first act of magic in the(your) world. With all the pains, the unfulfillment, the lack of glory, all of it is opportunity. Here I begin again with my personal views. As I said we are sealed. We are driven towards reaching out for beauty, but the seal restricts us from ever reaching true fulfillment in the traditional manner. If we retract our tenacious hands from life, and allow it to give us in return, we can find that the world is magic, and that there are mysteries behind every interaction. Every emotion experienced is what lies behind these mysteries, for it is what keeps our needy hands grabbing at life. Through mysticism we can refine the experience of these emotions, and then find the direct links they have to our manifestations, both physical and spiritual.

So that is the purpose of the seal, to humble us, and to remind us that we are greater than the feelings we allow to hold power over us. These emotions themselves, are like spiritual hands that you yet to identify with, and once you do, you will find that they are more than just feelings, but additional limbs in a plane of existence that we are slowly regaining memory of. Literally, one could do magic with the correct application and connection with ones emotions.

And such is magic... to me.

I was going to go on and describe what I've learned specifically about the emotions but such correlates to me, and itself is part of the great work, and we must all do that for ourselves. Thank you if you have read what I've said.

Magic is a lot of things.

It is a system by which ritualized behavior and repetitive processes are used to purposefully and willfully direct our thoughts and put ourselves in states of heightened consciousness so that we may intentionally create thought forms that have power and have meaning.

So much meaning that these thought forms actually become our reality.

Intention vs intentionality, the difference between what we have and what we just wish or. We all wish for things, we wish for change, we wish for things to be different. I would assume that most of us lack the willpower or the gusto in our day to day lives to make all of our daydreams become our reality.

"Tomorrow I'm gonna get up early, im gonna work out, im gonna go to work all day, come home start my projects, do some intense reading, draw etc etc etc. Our drives are different for each individual but I would posit that most of us have an inner voice directing the productive positive uses of our time that we could all tap in to at any time. Then we also have the simple truth that at the end of the day before going to bed we might have accomplished 0.5% of the things we actually wanted to do that day. These needs return to dreams and the cycle continues until we find the inspiration to tangibly change our reality.

Bearing that in mind, magic is simply a long studied and ritualized methodology by which we charge our bodies with enough sexual or higher forms of joy and inspiration in order to give ourselves that will to make these changes tangible without having to "wait" for that right moment or let the thought forms fade to black.

Expanding upon this sort of metaphorical worldview you can begin to see how information flows through from higher dimensions to us and how magic can be used to redirect that flow. It is quite literally ancient physics and neuroscience.

Training the brain

Magic is a lot of things.

It is a system by which ritualized behavior and repetitive processes are used to purposefully and willfully direct our thoughts and put ourselves in states of heightened consciousness so that we may intentionally create thought forms that have power and have meaning.

So much meaning that these thought forms actually become our reality.

Intention vs intentionality, the difference between what we have and what we just wish or. We all wish for things, we wish for change, we wish for things to be different. I would assume that most of us lack the willpower or the gusto in our day to day lives to make all of our daydreams become our reality.

"Tomorrow I'm gonna get up early, im gonna work out, im gonna go to work all day, come home start my projects, do some intense reading, draw etc etc etc. Our drives are different for each individual but I would posit that most of us have an inner voice directing the productive positive uses of our time that we could all tap in to at any time. Then we also have the simple truth that at the end of the day before going to bed we might have accomplished 0.5% of the things we actually wanted to do that day. These needs return to dreams and the cycle continues until we find the inspiration to tangibly change our reality.

Bearing that in mind, magic is simply a long studied and ritualized methodology by which we charge our bodies with enough sexual or higher forms of joy and inspiration in order to give ourselves that will to make these changes tangible without having to "wait" for that right moment or let the thought forms fade to black.

Expanding upon this sort of metaphorical worldview you can begin to see how information flows through from higher dimensions to us and how magic can be used to redirect that flow. It is quite literally ancient physics and neuroscience.

Training the brain