Senate CIA Torture Report Released: "Mismanaged Dungeons"

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: spiritualzombie

maybe you should try a search, when all the obama bs about closing down GTMO came out in 2008 and 2009 I said the same things on this forum.

Jaden

I would be hesitant to encourage people to search your posts for credibility purposes...you also strongly claimed that the President was born in Kenya...

That said..I'll afford you that you could have done the 5 month tour at Guantanamo 10 years ago...I just have no clue why you think that qualifies you to speak to discredit a report covering 6 years at black sites around the globe apart from Guantanamo.

You need to buck up and actually read the report. It isn't media speculation, it is excerpts from the CIA's own files and accounting.

THEN they out sourced...www.dailymail.co.uk... olence-one-swapped-waterboarding-kayaking.html

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

You're going to compare IRS emails or amnesty for illegal immigrants to torture of innocent people? You're going to compare that to war crimes and crimes against humanity?

The Bush administration lies to us to get us into a war and tortures innocent people, collecting piles of false confessions to prop up their lies to the American people-- and you want to compare that sh*t to GD emails?

seriously? This is the insanity of the Republican Party. They all need a psyche evaluation. Not fit to govern. Not fit to even think rationally.

Putting emails on par with the torture of innocent people. WTF? Wow, 911 really mind-F'd republicans on such an epic level.

Exactly, it's like comparing a bitch slap to murder. Obama isn't perfect, and I despise him for Libya and Syria. BUT, the Democrats and Obama didn't invade an entire country on false pretenses, resulting in the deaths of 200,000 civilians, a war crime in itself. Obama didn't start a regime of torture, also a war crime.

Wake the F$ck up Republicans. You had a war criminal for president, and you are supporting huge war crimes. You know, mass murder? Mass torture?

Does anyone really believe CIA just stopped doing torture.

I mean does anyone here have any knowledge of history.

I mean I don't even ask you for knowledge of the present.

I ask you, do you know history dating back 60s 70s 80s 90s etc etc

The only war criminal I see is the criminal in chief negotiating with terrorists for the release of a traitor.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

You're going to compare IRS emails or amnesty for illegal immigrants to torture of innocent people? You're going to compare that to war crimes and crimes against humanity?

The Bush administration lies to us to get us into a war and tortures innocent people, collecting piles of false confessions to prop up their lies to the American people-- and you want to compare that sh*t to GD emails?

seriously? This is the insanity of the Republican Party. They all need a psyche evaluation. Not fit to govern. Not fit to even think rationally.

Putting emails on par with the torture of innocent people. WTF? Wow, 911 really mind-F'd republicans on such an epic level.

Exactly, it's like comparing a bitch slap to murder. Obama isn't perfect, and I despise him for Libya and Syria. BUT, the Democrats and Obama didn't invade an entire country on false pretenses, resulting in the deaths of 200,000 civilians, a war crime in itself. Obama didn't start a regime of torture, also a war crime.

Wake the F$ck up Republicans. You had a war criminal for president, and you are supporting huge war crimes. You know, mass murder? Mass torture?

You are behind in the news ... Bush was right. There were WMD's in Iraq. ISIS made a beeline straight to them when criminal in chief pulled out of Iraq.

Your glorious commander has been lame ducked. people see through him now ... so all you are left with is liberal impotent rage.

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

What you imply is a pretty big failure of the US then. After all that torture, all that wiretapping, and years on the ground we were unable to find these weapons. Yet a group of unaffiliated resistance fighters got together and were able to obtain them easily?

Or did the US find them and then not remove them?

Either way you're not exactly making a compelling argument for your team here.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

What you imply is a pretty big failure of the US then. After all that torture, all that wiretapping, and years on the ground we were unable to find these weapons. Yet a group of unaffiliated resistance fighters got together and were able to obtain them easily?

Or did the US find them and then not remove them?

Either way you're not exactly making a compelling argument for your team here.

You really are behind the news.

Don't let me interrupt you Tokyo Rose.

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer
You really are behind the news.

Don't let me interrupt you Tokyo Rose.

Am I? I only have so much time in the day to read up on things. Have I missed something? The chemical weapons ISIS supposedly has were laying around. We knew they were there the entire time we were in Iraq, and we did nothing about it. Oh, and we never classified those weapons as WMD's.

Sounds pretty bad to me and torture solves none of that problem.

www.nytimes.com...

(EDITORIAL) THE WAR HERO AND THE CHICKEN HAWK
"By Wednesday, Cheney was the petulant child caught and cornered. Confronted with evidence that 26 detainees were wrongfully held, with examples of “rectal feeding” (rape by another definition), or induced hypothermia that most likely killed one suspect, he proclaimed the exhaustive inquiry “full of crap.” He still had not read the report.

"It’s impolite to call somebody a liar. So take it from the rare blunt headline in Politico earlier this week: “Dick Cheney Was Lying About Torture.” This was a piece written by Mark Fallon, who was on the inside — the special agent in charge of a task force that sought information from numerous terror suspects.

"When McCain was done speaking on Tuesday, Senator Dianne Feinstein of California approached her colleague. She had made her own memorable speech, saying, “History will judge us by our commitment to a just society governed by law and the willingness to face an ugly truth and say, ‘never again.'”

"As McCain walked off the floor, with the cautious gait of a man physically hobbled by his service nearly a half-century ago, Senator Feinstein kissed him on the cheek. It was a way of saying thanks to a war hero whose words, if this country believes what it preaches, will outlast the scowling remarks of a chicken hawk."

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer


You are behind in the news ... Bush was right. There were WMD's in Iraq. ISIS made a beeline straight to them when criminal in chief pulled out of Iraq.

You would benefit from reading up on the topic.

What soldiers found were old, abandoned mustard gas munitions from the 1980's. Often scattered across the dessert nearby abandoned military outposts. These munitions had already been seen and identified by the United Nations. This did not validate in the least the Bush Administrations claims of a robust and active WMD program or the still discredited intelligence they based the claim on.

Such pre-1991 chemical-weapons shells (often empty) were found by U.N. weapons inspectors just before the 2003 invasion of Iraq by the United States. The Bush administration, by contrast, staked its WMD claims on an active, on-going program that was restarted after the Kuwait conflict.

www.washingtonpost.com...
Compare the abandoned, scattered, rusted, 1980's era Mustard Gas munitions discovered (which had already been identified in previous years by the United Nations) with the CIA's faulty claims at the time..

CIA White Paper, October 2002

Iraq largely has rebuilt missile and biological weapons facilities damaged during Operation Desert Fox and has expanded its chemical and biological infrastructure under the cover of civilian production

...

Although Saddam probably does not yet have nuclear weapons or sufficient material to make any, he remains intent on acquiring them.

...

Baghdad has begun renewed production of chemical warfare agents, probably including mustard, sarin, cyclosarin, and VX.

...

Saddam probably has stocked a few hundred metric tons of CW agents.

...

All key aspects—R&D, production, and weaponization—of Iraq’s offensive BW [Biological Weapons] program are active and most elements are larger and more advanced than they were before the Gulf war.

...

Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating BW agents and is capable of quickly producing and weaponizing a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery by bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers, and covert operatives, including potentially against the US Homeland.

...

Baghdad has established a large-scale, redundant, and concealed BW agent production capability, which includes mobile facilities; these facilities can evade detection, are highly survivable, and can exceed the production rates Iraq had prior to the Gulf war.

www.washingtonpost.com...
All of this has since been proven to be completely and utterly false...that is not a partisan claim...it is the CIA's own conclusion in the interceding years following a full invasion, on the ground examination and countless interrogations of Iraq Government Officials, Military and Operatives.

What would be useful to know which of the CIA's 2002 claims above were premised on the delirious ramblings of some Iraqi operative that they strung up and beat for a week. Cuz the Iraq war cost us almost 5000 American lives, plus in the ballpark of 200k locals civilians.