Kazakhstan "Stealing the Bride"

I saw this video earlier and was simply horrified at what goes on in some of these other backwards places. I don't care if people say we shouldn't judge the cultural traditions of another country. This is simply barbaric and disturbing to me as a fellow human being.

If you are unable to watch a young woman is forcefully removed from a vehicle kicking and screaming and then taken to meet her new husband. It is very hard to watch.

a reply to: Metallicus

This very much cultural and ancient practice in that country has been featured in the Discovery channel or History channel where I have seen an episode of many different girls that were been taken as bride.

Actually in the initial documentary from all the girls that were taken, only one rejected the groom to be and refuse to wear the traditional veil that will mark that she accepted the groom.

So as barbaric as the tradition may be girls can refuse the groom to be, if they choose too, none of the girls in the documentary actually were mistreated in any way.

But I can imagine that is cases that barbaric could be an under statement

The world is a very diverse place. Rites of manhood can be equally disturbing to some people:

Rites of Passage from around the world

a reply to: marg6043

It may not be 'Barbaric' however I dislike how it goes down. But their culture is none of my business.

As a western father I preferred my Daughter finding her own man *as she already has* Instead of her being dragged off kicking and screaming.

There is bridal ritual in Scandinavia when in evening ( couple have already been wed ) group of men steals the bride and groom has to do something to get his bride back. It can be singing, poetry etc.

originally posted by: dollukka
There is bridal ritual in Scandinavia when in evening ( couple have already been wed ) group of men steals the bride and groom has to do something to get his bride back. It can be singing, poetry etc.

Depends on if this is just for show or a real kidnapping.

Kazakhstan In Kazakhstan, bride kidnapping (alyp qashu) is divided into non-consensual and consensual abductions, kelisimsiz alyp qashu ("to take and run without agreement") and kelissimmen alyp qashu ("to take and run with agreement"), respectively.[34] Though some kidnappers are motivated by the wish to avoid a bride price or the expense of hosting wedding celebrations or a feast to celebrate the girl leaving home, other would-be husbands fear the woman's refusal, or that the woman will be kidnapped by another suitor first.[35] Generally, in nonconsensual kidnappings, the abductor uses either deception (such as offering a ride home) or force (such as grabbing the woman, or using a sack to restrain her) to coerce the woman to come with him.[36] Once at the man's house, one of his female relatives offers the woman a kerchief (oramal) that signals the bride's consent to the marriage. Though in consensual kidnappings, the woman may agree with little hesitation to wear the kerchief, in non-consensual abductions, the woman may resist the kerchief for days.[37]

Next, the abductor's family generally asks the "bride" to write a letter to her family, explaining that she had been taken of her own free will. As with the kerchief, the woman may resist this step adamantly.[38] Subsequently, the "groom" and his family generally issues an official apology to the bride's family, including a letter and a delegation from the groom's household. At this time, the groom's family may present a small sum to replace the bride-price. Though some apology delegations are met cordially, others are greeted with anger and violence.[39] Following the apology delegation, the bride's family may send a delegation of "pursuers" (qughysnshy) either to retrieve the bride or to verify her condition and honour the marriage.[40]

And you can bet that all are not consensual.

Anything of this nature, while it may seem unacceptable to us, is obviously acceptable to their culture as a whole. Because we think it wrong, does that mean we are right? It does, but only by our standards. The question of whether it is right or wrong from a universal standard of right and wrong, well that is a philosophical question, and should not be answered based on the emotions we experience when watching something like this. Our repulsion is definitely due to our cultural and societal beliefs, not due to the idea that we hold some more universal or absolute understanding of right and wrong. If we grew up in such a culture, the majority of us would likely hold our culture's beliefs as being closer to the true universal standard. Such beliefs are, in my opinion, human nature. Perhaps even my belief that such things are dependent on culture is itself a cultural belief.

If Marg6043 is correct in that she has the right to refuse the husband, that would definitely make most feel better. I am inclined however to ask why she is behaving in this manner if she need not be afraid of doing something she does not wish to do. Perhaps it is not a rational fear on her part, which I suppose makes a certain amount of sense. I believe that the majority of fears are irrational, at least in western society, or any society that is not extremely primitive. The peoples in the video are not primitive in the way I describe, even though they are somewhat primitive by western standards. Borat offers us many insights into this country as well, as this is where he is from, and where his sister plies her dirty trade. You will likely hear of her if you go there, as she is "number four prostitute in all of Kazakhstan."

This sounds like something that people would have done in the 1200's -- not in today's world.

I guess that business about the burlap bag in Borat wasn't just a joke after all...

a reply to: MystikMushroom

This sounds like something that people would have done in the 1200's -- not in today's world.

Well in certain cultures it is a well practiced event.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

I always use the symbiosis vs ego(predatory) scale to judge every behavior since it will show objective judgment not clouded by self(ego) view/culture.

If the kidnapping is consensual from the start than it is symbiotic to all parties.

If the kidnapping is non consensual then on the symbiosis vs ego(predatory) scale this would go towards the ego(predatory) instead of the symbiotic since the whole concept of wearing a person down to get an agreement is ego(predatory) driven and not for the common good of all who are affected by the behavior.

If she cannot refuse the husband the action is clearly ego(predatory) to the max and should be considered as a life long raping of the woman.

Some of the comments on the video

damez420sublime 18 hours ago I lived there for 15 years. It is mainly the Kyrgyz who do this. The village people are more likely to do this, in the cities it is unheard of. It's the same with any twisted hill billies

Gulvira Shaimerdenova 9 hours ago How awful to read that this culture is sick, or this is connected to the religion! And someone says it's a common thing to do in Kz. All of it is wrong!!!! I am not protecting the people who do this stuff, I am protecting my culture. This actions depend mostly on a education, not only in school, even home. If you see violence everyday, and don't know anything other then that, that's how these people act... I live in this culture, I know.... Usually this tradition is arranged. Sometimes there are situations like parents disagree or pregnancy, so couple agree to do it. But this video shows a kidnapping, not a traditional ceremony!!!!

nurlanzhak1 18 hours ago Thats actually quite illegal in kazakhstan and has been out of practice for long time. Anyone who knows any details should report to police of that town to help the girl

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
Anything of this nature, while it may seem unacceptable to us, is obviously acceptable to their culture as a whole. Because we think it wrong, does that mean we are right? It does, but only by our standards. The question of whether it is right or wrong from a universal standard of right and wrong, well that is a philosophical question, and should not be answered based on the emotions we experience when watching something like this. Our repulsion is definitely due to our cultural and societal beliefs, not due to the idea that we hold some more universal or absolute understanding of right and wrong. If we grew up in such a culture, the majority of us would likely hold our culture's beliefs as being closer to the true universal standards of truth.

I have to call BS on your response. Moral relativism aside, I know when something is right or wrong. I suppose the rape culture in India is okay, because, you know, it is how the grew up. How about slavery? Hey, it's a part of some cultures.

Certain things are just wrong and while someone might tell you she can refuse, I seriously doubt there wouldn't be severe consequences to the woman from both her family and the one that paid for her.

Apparently I was so angry I double posted.

It's okay. I'm better now. Thanks.