Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland, and England...it's our Union, let's now fix it together.

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

originally posted by: beansidhe
Do you honestly, honestly believe that the Tories are going to keep their promises, that things are going to be better now for Scotland, Wales, Northern England and Northern Ireland? Just walk me through that one please, because I'm not seeing it.

The Tories may be falling over each other to get a piece of that voter turn out. Take a chance and tell them what you want. I have a feeling The Parliament is listening right now, like never before.

Mike Grouchy

They might be Mike, but I'm doubting it. I think they'll be rubbing their pudgy little hands with glee. They know they won't get Scottish votes -yes or no voters - in any significant numbers. Now they can keep sending our kids out as cannon fodder for whatever stupid reason they like.

I did tell them what I want, but it wasn't enough. I'm gutted.

a reply to: beansidhe
I have made no claims about the Tories making anything better, I have never voted Tory or been a supporter of them.
I'm inviting discussion about how we as 4 peoples of the UK might change the current Union for the better of all of us if we want it.
You clearly do not want to suggest anything positive so if you want to whinge about the result I suggest you start your own thread instead of polluting this one with your bitter negativity.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: beansidhe
I have made no claims about the Tories making anything better, I have never voted Tory or been a supporter of them.
I'm inviting discussion about how we as 4 peoples of the UK might change the current Union for the better of all of us if we want it.
You clearly do not want to suggest anything positive so if you want to whinge about the result I suggest you start your own thread instead of polluting this one with your bitter negativity.

You mean I should go away? Make an independent thread? Lol!

a reply to: beansidhe
Well, you are free to post wherever you like, but if you have nothing positive to contribute about thoughts of how we can improve the Union which has now been decided by the vote, I shall dismiss you as a bitter troll.
I'm easy whatever. Get over it and engage positively with us in Wales, N.Ireland, and England as a shared Union, carry on bleating here with no response from me, or start you own whinge thread which I shall be free to ignore.

a reply to: grainofsand

Show a way we can make change and I will elbow my way to the front line. I am not defeatest as such, I see things sadly as they are and a lot of people are going to be very fed up when change doesn't happen. This was spelt out on the tv early this morning in tht things had b een promised that hadn't been thought through in accord with the deficit problems - so whatever scotland is thinking its won, not until the deficit. There are plans to grab people's savings if another bank fails and apoparently tht is n ot beyond the realms of the impossible. The elite want to go to war again with our tax revenues and the spilling of our young people's blood. There are yet further cuts to our services to come and unless we can take the UK out of the limelight and fore our politicians and queen to sit at a table on the outer rim of politics, we will all pay for the rich who fund the corporations efforts to rob other country's of their resources and the rich, with their shares in these corporation s will get richer.

One thing I can see people demanding is a democratic voting system and we know the scots did it, so we should all demand the same rights when we vote and not the sterile protective system we have today. However I betg Westminster all are peaceful thinking they have kept the lid on it again .

a reply to: beansidhe

Cheer up, even I've calm ed down now. I suspect they have got a terrible shock because scotland can demand another vote to leave the UK whenever it wants. If it leaves it for say 10 years, you will get rid of the older more conditioned to love the queen and obey the rules generation which could tip the vote to the Yes..

originally posted by: Shiloh7
One thing I can see people demanding is a democratic voting system and we know the scots did it, so we should all demand the same rights when we vote and not the sterile protective system we have today.

That is an excellent suggestion. I'm drawn to proportional representation voting as Wales and Scotland have in their devolved government. It would vastly change Westminster which is why they don't want it.

Let's all believe a bit more, be vocal, talk about it to our friends, campaign and make those changes.
If we don't believe we can do it then we might as well all just bend over and bring our own lube.
I don't ever want to do that, and I don't believe you do either.
The vote has been cast for a generation now, so let's all direct our energies towards a fairer more just union for all of us...our 4 tribes could be a truly powerful force if we actually start working together and realise who the enemy is.

a reply to: beansidhe

I understand how you might be feeling a bt despondent this morning.

But now is the time for rUK to step up to the plate and demand the change that the politicians have promised.
Scotland has shown us that it is possible to make Westminster listen - we now need to be more united than ever and demand action from them rather than the spin and empty promises they have previously gotten away with.

Anger can be power!

The whole debate invigorated Scotland, and large parts of rUK have also been enthused by it.

We now need to take that energy, drive and passion and continue forcing Westminster's hand.

My biggest fear is that unless those qualities are harnessed immediately and an organised and co-ordinated campaign is not started at once then that momentum will be lost and something will conveniently come along that will sidetrack the publics attention and we'll return to the same old same old status quo - and for me that would be a tragedy of epic proportions.

a reply to: Shiloh7
Ah, so you don't really want to chase a fair, just, and mutually beneficial union with Wales, N.Ireland, and England then, just put up with it until you can vote to leave again?
OK, I shall take that into account when interpreting the message of your posts from now on.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Thanks Shiloh. It just seems so obvious to me that a yes vote would have opened the door to the North of England, Wales and NI - it was never about turning our backs, it was about a demand for a fairer, socialist society.

Maybe you're right, 10 years from now we can push again, maybe our cousins will join with us this time instead of being angry with us. Here's hoping

a reply to: Freeborn

Good morning Freeborn, you're spot on, I'm devastated.
Like you I don't want to waste this momentum, this energy. It was amazing hearing primary school children discussing the referendum, to know that they were thinking about their community and their country.

Like I just said to Shiloh, if our cousins stand with us next time, we'll all be unstoppable! We could be, it could really happen!
You two have cheered me up today, big hugs to both of you.

B x

a reply to: beansidhe
Again, I ask why do you only mention the North of England?
I stated earlier that we are as skint and ignored in the SW of England as the North, even worse off when you compare vastly different house prices yet similar wages.
Do you just hate anyone who lives south of Macclesfield or something?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: beansidhe

I understand how you might be feeling a bt despondent this morning.

But now is the time for rUK to step up to the plate and demand the change that the politicians have promised.
Scotland has shown us that it is possible to make Westminster listen - we now need to be more united than ever and demand action from them rather than the spin and empty promises they have previously gotten away with.

Anger can be power!

The whole debate invigorated Scotland, and large parts of rUK have also been enthused by it.

We now need to take that energy, drive and passion and continue forcing Westminster's hand.

My biggest fear is that unless those qualities are harnessed immediately and an organised and co-ordinated campaign is not started at once then that momentum will be lost and something will conveniently come along that will sidetrack the publics attention and we'll return to the same old same old status quo - and for me that would be a tragedy of epic proportions.

I cant believe it, they are actually talking about devolution of power in not only Scotland, Wales, and Ireland but England too.

'We will also meet the desire for change across England across Wales, across the whole of the United Kingdom. Devolution is not just a good idea for Scotland and Wales it is a good idea for England and indeed for Northern Ireland.'
In a sign of Labour concern, backbencher Andy McDonald said: 'It's not about the Tories tightening their stranglehold on England, it's about releasing power to all of our regions.'

Unfortunately that was Ed Miliband saying that, so take it as you will... but devolution of powers to English regions! Excellent stuff!

***EDIT*** I think I may have miss read this, are the talking about county powers or English votes for English laws. i.e. Scotland cant vote on English laws...

a reply to: beansidhe
So you don't really support an improved union for us either then?
...just biding your time until you can vote to leave again, that will explain your negativity towards thoughts of making the union fairer and more just for all of us. I understand.

a reply to: tdk84
I am not surprised the talk is about a better, fairer union for us all now, the politicians can't really ignore it. But like others, I hope it won't just fizzle away in the next week as people get back into their Jeremy Kyle, or whatever crisis/whatever the media feels important enough to distract the masses with.

a reply to: grainofsand

I don't hate anyone. If the south of England want to band together to challenge Westminister, I'll back them all the way.

a reply to: beansidhe
Ah good good, it seems you could secretly be drawn towards a fairer and more just union for all of us after all?
Oh, and the south west of England is a very different beast to the leafy 'home counties' around London. We have stupid house prices due to those folk who buy holiday homes, we have a low waged seasonal economy, pockets of poverty in every town and similar rural issues as Wales and Scotland, just not noticed by the tourists in the nice environment of summer. We are as forgotten as Scotland is to Westminster, yet we get a thousand pound or so less per person under the Barnett Formula.
I support a fairer and more just union for all of us, and I hope we all do now the vote has been cast by the Scots to stay with us.

a reply to: grainofsand

So just because I disagree with Tory rule and the rule of Westminster, I'm the one who is meekly bending over??
Isnt that what the majority of Scots did yesterday? 4 nations working together, thats a good one if you believe that!

It is one nation raping the other three....all the while the UK government is instigating and arming MINORITIES in other countries who want change of government........hypocrisy to say the least.

All I see is more Tory rule, the fear mongering worked a treat in Scotland.

Remains to be seen what will actually change, i doubt a whole lot!

a reply to: grainofsand

I voted for independence, because I don't think a union works. I don't think centralisation works.
So yes, I will vote for independence again, but that does not mean that I wouldn't support better conditions for the Welsh, NI and English too. We've had a union and it hasn't been fair -at all. I don't see it improving, and lets face it, asking for greater powers of self autonomy (we have to ask??!! That should tell you everything about equality) isn't a union.

I don't know right now what would work for all of us, whilst allowing us to keep our own languages, culture and industries. United means shared beliefs, hopes and aspirations. I'm just not seeing that .

originally posted by: celticniall
a reply to: grainofsand

So just because I disagree with Tory rule and the rule of Westminster, I'm the one who is meekly bending over??

You continue to mention the Tories when I have not. I was responding to your negative position regarding my hopes for a better improved union for us all. You appear to see no hope in chasing a better union in your post on the first page. That to me appears as bending over and asking for the lube.

Isnt that what the majority of Scots did yesterday? 4 nations working together, thats a good one if you believe that!

The Scots voted to continue working to improve the shared union with N.Ireland, Wales, and England. That pleases me.

It is one nation raping the other three....all the while the UK government is instigating and arming MINORITIES in other countries who want change of government........hypocrisy to say the least.

Wow, such hatred for a nation of average people like you and me. I want us all to respect each other and work together for a brighter future. You appear bitter however.

All I see is more Tory rule, the fear mongering worked a treat in Scotland.

Remains to be seen what will actually change, i doubt a whole lot!

I hope your assessment of the continuing UK will be proved incorrect. Certainly if people are more positive than you appear then we may have a chance.
I note you claim to be from Ireland, is that the republic or N.I.? Could explain your apparent bitterness and lack of positivity.