Alleged vote fraud in Scottish independence, Yes votes included in No votes.

a reply to: angelchemuel

I read somewhere that all the ballot papers had individual numbers, can't remember where I read it though so unfortunately I can't provide a source.

The thing is, its 10 votes - and I acknowledge that's 10 votes too many - but its not exactly large scale vote rigging.

And the only people who seem to be shouting about it are people who never actually took part in the vote at all.

I am absolutely certain that some of the more vociferous and passionate 'Yes' campaigners would jumping all over this if they thought there was even the slightest chance of the vote being rigged.

Scotland has had its vote - it voted for the Union.

Now the mood is about reconciliation and taking the positives from this referendum, because there are many, and moving forward, together, and demanding that the politicians deliver the changes they promised and we can start changing this Union into something we can all be proud of.

This is the real Fraud...Wake up People..

After the vote..
How the Media Shafted the People of Scotland

Before the Vote..
BBC Licence fees to double in a independent Scotland


I'm perplexed, are people really so stupid to fall for this crap.??

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: douglas5
It was the first time i have voted but i thing i found weird was a PENCIL was in the booth tied to the wall is this normal
i think a pen would have been more apropreate

Should such a thing as a recount take place, pencil is easier and quicker to erase than ink.

If the vote has been rigged, we should assume a recount will also be rigged.

As i never had been in a polling station before i just let it go but it just seemed odd that a pencil would be used when you can get packs of pens in Tesco's for pennies .

I wonder did anyone else notice this when they went to vote

On the subject of Ballot fraud...I had my next door neighbour ask me this last night...."Her ex husband phoned her to say she had another voting card at her old address..5 Years since she last stayed there"..what should she do....?

What the hell is that all about.?

a reply to: Soloprotocol

I'm perplexed, are people really so stupid to fall for this crap.??

i suspect you already know the answer to your question

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Soloprotocol

I'm perplexed, are people really so stupid to fall for this crap.??

i suspect you already know the answer to your question

Yeah...I know.

originally posted by: douglas5
It was the first time i have voted but i thing i found weird was a PENCIL was in the booth tied to the wall is this normal
i think a pen would have been more apropreate

The reason for a pencil in polling booths is for simplicity and ease of use. Pens are generally more unreliable and can run out, whereas a pencil can be sharpened. You can take your own pen in with you if you want and use that. In fact I believe that many Yes voters did this, so no conspiracy there.

As for the Yes votes on the No table, that footage was taken at the beginning of the count..I know, I watched it live on Sky, and it was not suspicious at all, they were just sitting on that table prior to being counted separately. The alleged vote rigging was also a bit overblown, in that 10 ballot papers across Glasgow were being treated as suspicious, as it was felt it may have been a case of "personation" as there had been 10 cases of people turning up at the polling station and their vote had already been cast. Police Scotland took the suspicious ballot papers for further investigation (each ballot paper does have a unique ID on it, which corresponds to the polling booth used and the person it was issued to, therefore if you spoil your ballot paper in the polling booth and ask for another, they destroy that ballot paper and score out the corresponding number on the ballot paper issue sheet) But as we are talking about 10 ballot papers in a vote cast by nearly 4 million people, I hardly think it warrants any conspiracy theory.

Ultimately, 10% more people in Scotland decided that the risks of independence, outweighed the benefits, than those who voted Yes, sorry folks but that's how it is and I am quite sure that had Devo Max been on the ballot paper, that would have been a landslide choice.

Now it will remain to be seen if the extra powers that are to be granted to Scotland and Wales, Northern Ireland and England, will come to fruition. I think the current government cannot really shy away from this, because if the referendum has proved one thing, it is that people have engaged in politics in record numbers since the post war elections and that change must happen.

originally posted by: misscurious
Do you people honestly think all those counters were in on this? Never heard so much tosh in all my life.
The lady in youtube vudeo. . Maybe she made a mistake and rectified it whilst being filmed..
The yes paper on the no table.. maybe another mistake where a stack of papers were counted but put on the wrong table..
Not everything in life is a conspiracy, the people decided to stay part of the UK.. get over it and let's continue to blame America for the instability in the world...

Why would the Scots demand a referendum to exit the UK, only to then vote to stay in it? Why?

It doesn't make sense.

a reply to: stumason

Nice try oh loyal one but no-one seems to be biting.

The very fact that voting is not undertaken using modern technology (see Bitcongress) where everyone gets a "Votecoin" (instead of bitcoin) and places their vote that way is at the heart of the reason people suspect skullduggery.

For those without access to a computers they could still go to polling station and present the votecoin on their phone screen or as print out.

No dodgy counts, no dodgy identities using a technology that has withstood (broadly speaking) the best attempts of the hacking community to undermine it.

As long as this technology is not in place people will always suspect shenanigans.

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: misscurious
Do you people honestly think all those counters were in on this? Never heard so much tosh in all my life.
The lady in youtube vudeo. . Maybe she made a mistake and rectified it whilst being filmed..
The yes paper on the no table.. maybe another mistake where a stack of papers were counted but put on the wrong table..
Not everything in life is a conspiracy, the people decided to stay part of the UK.. get over it and let's continue to blame America for the instability in the world...

Why would the Scots demand a referendum to exit the UK, only to then vote to stay in it? Why?

It doesn't make sense.

That's not quite true. The SNP only got 19% of the vote in Scotland and I think that the end result showed an accurate representation of those who wanted independence and those who wanted to remain in the UK. The Yes campaign was certainly the more vocal, but I think many No voters made their minds up quietly and acted in the polling booths.

Had the vote come out with a landslide victory for No, I might have been suspicious, but the 10% margin was about right as far as I can see.

a reply to: doobydoll

Australia held a referendum to become a republic due to apparent popular demand.

We're still a constitutional monarchy 15 years on by the way...

a reply to: douglas5

The best thing they can use to mark isn't a pencil or a pen but a hole punch. a hole punch can't be changed, not with out great effort. They also never run out and are as clear as day when doing a count.

originally posted by: ObjectZero
a reply to: douglas5

The best thing they can use to mark isn't a pencil or a pen but a hole punch. a hole punch can't be changed, not with out great effort. They also never run out and are as clear as day when doing a count.

Too much margin for error, e.g. the hole punch or the paper slips..people with mobility issues probably couldn't use them easily

No, like I said, voters can take a pen in with them if they want, but the pencils are provided as an easy to use, effective marker for the ballot paper

a reply to: FlyersFan

The people of Scotland may or may not have voted to stay with the UK. But in the end, TPTB would make sure that the vote said 'no independence'. It would set off a great deal of independence votes and wars around the world.

its funny you should say that ...one might think they already have their hands full without allowing any more dissension in the ranks

a reply to: doobydoll

"The Scots" made no such demand.

It was simply an SNP policy if they ever got into power.

a reply to: Jukiodone

I'll ignore the obvious personal swipe and get to the point.

How is voting electronically any more secure than a pen + paper?

Have you ever been at a Polling station during a count? Do you know the process? Do you know how many eyes from all spectrum's and organisations are present? To pull off a fraud which would engender a 10% margin would require the complete complicity of everyone involved, including those in the "Yes" camp.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Jukiodone

I'll ignore the obvious personal swipe and get to the point.

How is voting electronically any more secure than a pen + paper?

Have you ever been at a Polling station during a count? Do you know the process? Do you know how many eyes from all spectrum's and organisations are present? To pull off a fraud which would engender a 10% margin would require the complete complicity of everyone involved, including those in the "Yes" camp.

Yes, that is very true of every election, I used to work in local govt and have been present at vote counts as an independent observer and last night the Yes volunteers were present at every single count, standing behind the vote counters, marking every vote, which is why Mr Salmond disappeared and only emerged at the end. He knows he cannot shout foul play, because there wasn't any..plain and simple, 10% more people wanted to remain in the UK than wanted to be independent

originally posted by: AlphaHawk
a reply to: doobydoll

Australia held a referendum to become a republic due to apparent popular demand.

We're still a constitutional monarchy 15 years on by the way...

Australia will throw off those last vestiges of it's colonial past, one day.

originally posted by: TDawgRex

originally posted by: N3k9Ni

I didn't know you had Republicans in Scotland.

I didn't know the DNC had a hand in votes in Scotland either. After all, they have been caught more times than the opposition doing such.

Face facts. Both parties here commit fraud. Fraud occurs in every ballot no matter what country.

I like how you say "they have been caught more times than the opposition". So, just because another group has been 'caught' more times than an another means the other might be more adept at committing fraud without anyone finding out.