Demographically based slurs privately used.

Heya all. I just wanted to ask a question of a subject that is always presented as black and white.

Is it appropriate to use demographically based slurs privately among friends or family if using the word out of context to exacerbate your point. I just found myself calling my brother a f****t jokingly not because of any dislike of the gay community but as joking banter. I wish for gay rights to be as equal as everyone else's and I understand the term is very harmful to some, so I don't use it to offend anyone. Also as a white guy I like saying n****r because the word has been blocked in a sense from my vocabulary. I would never want that term to be heard by me by my niece who is half black and I raise as a daughter and when I used the term I use it as a negative because that's what the word is to me, negativity. Like gays, I do wish black people all the luck in the world with rights. How am I supposed to feel as a person about my own use of the words in private?

With that said, I wouldn't tolerate anyone using the term n****r around my niece or the term s***k around my partly Hispanic son. Lets converse about this so I can adjust my opinion a bit.



Also, I feel shame bringing this up to any community not because my use of the words that I don't use in public but because I keep this words out of public eye for the reason of not offending are now public.

a reply to: Antipathy17

Slurs are fine if you can say them in front of the group they are directed.

For instance, the "N" word.

One day I was sitting around with a family member and they had an interview with Samuel L. Jackson on where one of the interviewers asked him about the "N word" and he said "say it"...and the interviewer wouldn't say it.

Well it got me thinking.

My mother before she passed always told me not to say something about someone that you wouldn't say to their face.

I wouldn't call most black men 'n-word's to their face.

But I also wonder if you would say that word to your white friends and not your black friends does that mean you see your black friends as less or your white friends less?

So I talked to a black friend of mine and asked him(actually a drag queen) if he would ever be able to discuss the word 'n-word' with me, as a white woman.

At the end of our conversation we decided that we have been programmed to disrespect each other with certain words and at the same time programmed to be defensive.

But here's the deal. If you have a gay friend and cannot discuss the word fag with him before calling him that. If he cannot discuss it with you, then it is still a slur. You might both still see the word as offensive or defensive based on the lack of understanding from both sides.

Me and my drag friend now agree 'n-word' is an outdated and dumb word. I admitted to him I still use 'n-word' rig from time to time. He admitted some things too. I am glad we talked.

a reply to: OrphanApology

My black friends have heard me use the term in a manner in which I've quoted someone else. It makes for a little awkwardness but they understand it's not directed from me toward blacks.

And my gay friends have heard me using the term in a similar way.

a reply to: Antipathy17

They are all terms of endearment albeit words used with a sentiment opposite to their literal definition. I do it and know numerous others who also do it, nothing embarrassing or shameful about it IMO.

It's really a matter of context and intent as far as I can see.

Kind Regards
Myselfaswell

a reply to: Antipathy17

No don't "use" the term...

"Discuss"

Do not use a previously horrendous slur with someone of the intended group before "discussing" it with them.

If you cannot do that, you do not respect them enough to hear out their thoughts.

a reply to: Antipathy17

Looking up the word 'congruence' it defines it as harmony between thought and action. Or others might say "To thine own self be true". Our exterior should match our interior, in other words. If you are really against those words and terms, then let your behaviour show it by never using them. Simple really. Show some strength by letting your exterior match your interior. It will remove all wussy behaviours. You don't have to be a warrior, but act firmly and correctly, (Advice found often in the I Ching) Be consistent, and beginning with yourself, I promise it will make you more satisfied and proud.

a reply to: OrphanApology

Also, I've discussed with many of my black friends over the years the term and we've discussed it like such. I've admitted using it in private and none of them took offense to that but again I am limited to a community (while being VERY diverse) in my area and don't know how other people in further regions may feel.

I can't believe I've forgotten the above in its entirety until I started this thread... actually I can. Head trauma has killed my memory.

a reply to: Antipathy17

Well that's good.

But make sure to do that with all of your friends and all gay friends as well before using it. It is a respect thing.

I am a hardcore atheist but you won't find me bashing bible scriptures when I first meet a coworker when they tell me "thank the lord" when I do something amazing.

Same deal, talk first...jokes later.

Same with gay friends.


Edit: Make sure you are on the same page so to speak.

a reply to: aboutface

I disagree. I feel that for some it may be an expression of ones inner feelings but I am a man of equality... might seem odd but I actively fight for equality among all people daily. I live on a street on mostly latino and middle eastern cultures and when it comes to playing outside I always go by fairness to all, I'm not secretly thinking I wish these *insert slur here* would avoid me.

I also view people of other groups and do think stereotypes but immediately correct myself and see the person as an individual. It usually has more to do with clothing and not race or sexual preference.

originally posted by: Antipathy17
a reply to: aboutface

I disagree. I feel that for some it may be an expression of ones inner feelings but I am a man of equality... might seem odd but I actively fight for equality among all people daily. I live on a street on mostly latino and middle eastern cultures and when it comes to playing outside I always go by fairness to all, I'm not secretly thinking I wish these *insert slur here* would avoid me.

I also view people of other groups and do think stereotypes but immediately correct myself and see the person as an individual. It usually has more to do with clothing and not race or sexual preference.

After reading aboutface's response (which I thought well said and equal to my own perspective on the matter) and your response it appears to me that you already know where you stand and are just looking for validation and affirmation from your respondents.

a reply to: aboutface

True to that and congrats.

I will add though that sometimes the knee jerk reaction to being against something is to make a joke.

Which is more likely to make a word lose it's potency?

Two people, a white and black man in a room who refuse to use the 'n-word' in front of each other.

Two people, a white and a black man in a room discuss the word 'n-word' and come to an understanding between each other. Afterwards they make some bbq and joke with each other after finding common ground with a slur that has deviated their whole lives more than likely.

Which is more effective in working toward making a word not a slur?

a reply to: Antipathy17

As far as n***a goes, I say it quite often. The way I see it, if black folks are going to use it I should be allowed to as well and I do. Yes, in front of black people as well. I honestly do not consider the version which drops there "er" for the "a" as a slur.

Well my whole point behind my post was that you stated in your OP that you would definitely not want your niece to hear you saying it, so if it's part of your vocabulary, who says it just can't slip out? Hey, you can disagree all you want, but if you are justifying its use, isn't that slip a greater danger than if you were to just erase it from your usage at all times?

Once we deeply hurt a child, they will remember it even if they never say much about it, so that's why I replied to your post in the first place. I thought that was the purpose of your post. Sorry if I misread.

a reply to: grubblesnert

Believe what you want, I came here to discuss and learn.

a reply to: aboutface

wholeheartedly agree. I just don't see it as a possibility in front of her at least. maybe something I need to re-evaluate and that's why im here.

Words are just words, and they will be powerful/hurtful only as long as people allow them to be.

Outwardly I am a stereotypical "goofy white guy". I live in the deep south, and I have friends from all corners of the race spectrum. We all call each other various racial "slurs", most of which don't even correctly apply to our skin color/heritage. My last house I allowed my friends to leave their mark (in ink) on my bedroom walls. One of my closer friends (black guy) thought it would be funny to write something along the lines of "Orion is the only n****r allowed in this house!". We thought it was absolutely hilarious, and we still mention it to this day almost a decade later. The way we see it if you aren't bright enough to understand that these are just words, then you have no place in our circle.

As you can see my circle has a slightly different outlook on life than most.

One day we will all truly feel the freedom of speech we hear so much about.
One day we will all truly learn from our past and break down the barriers.
One day we will all understand that sticks and stones will break your bones, but words can never hurt you.
Not one single word, phrase, paragraph, essay or novel.
Until you give it power.

Think of it in terms of the movie Grand Toreno when Clint Eastwood walks into his barber shop and they all call each other racist names. I've been that way with a lot of the guys I used to work with. Some of my black co-workers would call me a racial slur when I walked in and I would call them one. We saw it as a term of endearment. Would we do it in front of other people? Nope. But we'd give each other hell, though.lol We play on all the stereotypes, and it's hilarious at times. I think if you have hate behind it, that's when it's bad. You don't seem to have hate behind it to me, but in this politically correct world in which we live, it could land you in some hot water, so I'd be careful. But amongst buddies, it's okay.

a reply to: Fylgje

Does anyone else happen to feel this is something negative or that it's a sign of inner emotions? I'm up for discussion.

Slang terms evolve and change meaning all the time. Fag was originally a term for a bundle of sticks, then a deragatory term for a homosexual, and now (thanks to southpark) it is more a term for an inconsiderate person.

I used to manage a retail store and we had a gay employee. Nicest guy you could ever meet. At one of our store meetings one of the other employees said "well, that's gay" in response to some BS corporate rule that i had to inform everybody of. The guy who was gay got the strangest look on his face, and everybody froze.

The person who said it, explained what he meant and apologized. The gay guy laughed like crazy and explained that it was all good and he was not in any way offended. From then on I would occasionally catch him using the term himself then giggling about it.

The point is, and the lesson I learned is that words are only harmful if they are used in a way that is meant to harm. Slang terms are only negative as long as we treat them as such. When words like Fag, Gay, or the n-word evolve to mean something completely different than what they used to mean, they no longer cause harm unless you let them.

originally posted by: Antipathy17
a reply to: Fylgje

Does anyone else happen to feel this is something negative or that it's a sign of inner emotions? I'm up for discussion.

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but it's only negative if it's meant to be. You can't go up to random people and start saying racial slurs. Only if you have a good relationship with friends and nobody else can hear you. I couldn't imagine someone over-hearing me and some of my friends messing with each other, because for someone from the outside looking in, it sounds really bad. And not all friends of different races do it. It's something special that only friends, who're comfortable with each other, do.