Air Force Bombshell: Admits they can control weather

originally posted by: MarlinGrace
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Na I'm not really worried I just found it ironic the faith put into the government program for global warming correction when they can control it anyway. Why should we pay carbon tax when they can control the weather? Kind of mutes the climate change argument.

There's a bit of difference between controlling the weather and experimenting with it. Same with climate change: difference between experimenting in order to try and mitigate and actually having a positive impact. The other difference too, a biggy, is that an experiment can and often does have unforeseen consequences.

What consequence the experiments using the very powerful ionospheric heater at the HAARP facility have had on the weather is, imo, not so much control as damage.

We are all impacted by the damage done and we are all asked to pay to fix it. Without ever being given the facts. It's unfair because we never had a say in messing with it to begin with. But...if it's messed up now it will affect all and has to be fixed. This is an old story i.e. the ozone holes. Also, military control of the weather has a much different purpose than what it would for us.

Boundary Between Earth's Upper Atmosphere And Space Has Moved to Extraordinarily Low Altitudes, NASA Instruments Document

We always wind up paying for the mistakes our big brother makes. We also facilitate the creation of those mistakes.

a reply to: luxordelphi

So what damage has been done by HAARP to the ionosphere?

And what does the ionosphere have to do with the weather?

a reply to: MarlinGrace

Though prob. a longtime lurker but a relatively new poster...we discussed here many times at ATS the misleading aspects of words : "Happening now!" "Breaking!" , "Must watch!", "Here we go!" "Air Force Bombshell-Admits..."

It may have been at one time new info...but its implication is its just been confirmed...and worse of all?

It is hardly any kind of "bombshell" and certainly not anything we didn't hear them admit like you quoted...around 1997.

So sure, you didn't say new. It wasn't...nor was it a "bombshell". There were articles about this years ago...

a reply to: MarlinGrace

en.wikipedia.org...

Admitted as far back as 1968....so no "bombshell-admittance"

"Weather warfare is the use of weather modification techniques such as cloud seeding for military purposes.
The Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques (Geneva: 18 May 1977, Entered into force: 5 October 1978) prohibits "widespread, long-lasting or severe effects as the means of destruction, damage or injury".[1] However it has been argued that this permits "local, non-permanent changes".

Prior to the Geneva Convention, the United States used weather warfare in the Vietnam War. Under the auspices of the Air Weather Service, the United States' Operation Popeye used cloud seeding over the Ho Chi Minh trail, increasing rainfall by an estimated thirty percent during 1967 and 1968..."

a reply to: luxordelphi

We always wind up paying for the mistakes our big brother makes. We also facilitate the creation of those mistakes.

We also pay for the mistakes of ATS members that post misinformation, unless corrected.

From your link

The height of the ionosphere/space transition is controlled in part by the amount of extreme ultraviolet energy emitted by the Sun and a somewhat contracted ionosphere could have been expected because C/NOFS was launched during a minimum in the 11-year cycle of solar activity.

You're trying to pin this tail on the wrong donkey.

In addition to the questions network dude just asked, what was your point?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: luxordelphi

So what damage has been done by HAARP to the ionosphere?

And what does the ionosphere have to do with the weather?

I'm no scientist but from the bit of reading I've done, not a whole heck of a lot. There are other applications for HAARP which are quite interesting though. From what I can gleen, there are 3 areas I could see this technology being used for:

-Enhancing radio communications. There seems to be a way to open channels for radio waves in the ionosphere that can enhance communications or prevent them from being jammed or interfered with by solar cycles

-Enhanced protection from solar flares (this seems pretty important and was probably one of the major selling points of HAARP)

-Energy generation. There seems to be some evidence that charging the ionosphere could be used to generate power for electrical grids. I'm not really sure how that would work since you'd have to get more energy out of it than you put in for it to be worthwhile.

But yes, I agree with those of you calling out the source article. There is no evidence here that HAARP is used to control the weather, and I can't seem to find any evidence that the ionosphere could be used to do so.

I wonder though if it could be used to interfere with ICBM's? If you charge a portion of the ionosphere enough, could you zap an ICBM with enough energy to disable it?

surely you recognize the difference between manipulating the ionosphere and controlling global climate patterns?

a reply to: MarlinGrace

Heya OP.. I don't know about some of the more interesting and wild claims about HAARP or what it was ever intended to do, but the graphic the source story used is accurate enough.



That's representative of the methods the IPCC and International community have been discussing in depth. The Ionosphere control does make me wonder if some minor impact to the balance while other connected things were being done is what made a difference to matter? Hard to say..and I guess it won't matter any longer with it being dismantled. At least, that variation of it.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Yeah I agree it is on the way out, but I can say it is the last time I post information from another site, some people act as if I am making these claims. It struck me kind of funny if any aspect of it is true. For sure I have been duly informed. The idea behind having the ability to flex the ionosphere is if you can push it out with HAARP it has to contract in other areas thus changing the jetstream direction and changing weather conditions in other areas not natural. But who knows really, I can't imagine they will ever tell us.

As for the UN I never heard of a treaty or law that was created when it wasn't necessary. If no one can manipulate the weather then why is any of it necessary? It also seems to me anyone with a degree in science in any branch with claims of climate change can belly up to the money bar and stake their claim. I just try to keep things unemotional and ask questions that make sense while dodging fireballs.

I have noticed your post are well written, documented, and without fire. Thanks

a reply to: MarlinGrace

As for the UN I never heard of a treaty or law that was created when it wasn't necessary. If no one can manipulate the weather then why is any of it necessary?

It was necessary.

During the Vietnam war, the US army conducted cloud seeding operations during the monsoon season to flood out the Vietcong.

The treaty was brought in after this, so such tactics couldn't be used again.

originally posted by: AlphaHawk
a reply to: MarlinGrace

As for the UN I never heard of a treaty or law that was created when it wasn't necessary. If no one can manipulate the weather then why is any of it necessary?

It was necessary.

During the Vietnam war, the US army conducted cloud seeding operations during the monsoon season to flood out the Vietcong.

The treaty was brought in after this, so such tactics couldn't be used again.

Thats what I love about ATS someone always knows the answer. Thanks

“To inject energy into the ionosphere to be able to actually control it. But that work has been completed.” - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just what is the revelation here? This is exactly what HAARP was designed for, and anyone that understood the science behind it, knows this. There is no link with weather, it is the manipulation of charged particles in a near vacuum and the propagation of LF radio waves. The science does not work in anything but a vacuum.

All of the science revealed in all of these HAARP threads, and so many care to not understand that. It's just easier to perpetuate a myth than learn what HAARP was really all about.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: luxordelphi

So what damage has been done by HAARP to the ionosphere?

And what does the ionosphere have to do with the weather?

When the air force says:

Responding to questions from Sen. Lisa Murkowski during a Senate hearing Wednesday, David Walker, deputy assistant secretary of the Air Force for science, technology and engineering, said this is "not an area that we have any need for in the future" and it would not be a good use of Air Force research funds to keep HAARP going. "We're moving on to other ways of managing the ionosphere, which the HAARP was really designed to do," he said. "To inject energy into the ionosphere to be able to actually control it. But that work has been completed."

Air Force prepares to dismantle HAARP ahead of summer shutdown

they are basically saying that HAARP was injecting energy into the ionosphere in order to control it. They further say that this work is complete and that they are moving on to other ways of managing the ionosphere. So they have it under control and now are moving on to managing this control.

Military management and control purposes are not civilian. Ionospheric storms disrupt military gadgets and so they have to be stopped. The relationship between natural weather and weather that a mind-set like this might create is irrelevant to the military. By the same token, the creation of ionospheric storms could disrupt enemy gadgets - here again the civilian plight is of no consequence.

There is a sweet and definite relationship between our weather and the state of the ionosphere. Sadly, it has been little studied. War applications have taken precedence and the last thing we concern ourselves with in war time is whether or not the civilian population has natural weather.

Tropical thunderstorms affect space weather

The persistant, day-after-day formation of clouds and thunderstorms over the tropics has a surprisingly big effect on the Earth's ionosphere some 200 miles above the cloud layer, according to new results from two of NASA's satellites published recently by physicists at the University of California, Berkeley.

But, again, the only reason this relationship is studied is because:

"This discovery will help improve forecasts of turbulence in the ionosphere, which can disrupt radio transmissions and the reception of signals from the Global Positioning System," said Thomas Immel, an assistant research physicist at UC Berkeley's Space Sciences Laboratory and lead author of a paper on the research published Aug. 11 in Geophysical Research Letters.

There are also currently several threads kicking around on ATS which talk about the space weather lightning connection. Previous to those threads there were some that touched on the experiments with lightning that DARPA was conducting using the U.S. as a laboratory. That might be a place to look for the air force in their current 'ionospheric management' role, as it were.

Lots of meteors that enter the earth's atmosphere burn up in the ionosphere. That would maybe be one good reason not to tamper with it. And while the air force 'manages' the ionosphere to make sure that their stuff works 24/7, a meteor came along and blew them all away. Oops.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

While I appreciate the fact that you actually read the link I put up, I don't understand what part of "...inject energy into the ionosphere to be able to actually control it..." you don't understand.

While it may, in the past, have been strictly solar and cosmic purview to energize the ionosphere, the air force has now admitted to taking on that role.

Eastlund, father of HAARP, claimed that the height of the ionosphere could be altered using this technology. When you alter one part of a whole, there can be a cascade - like dominoes. While the air force is not claiming responsibility for this height difference, they are claiming that they are in control and the result of this control is an alarming situation.

Boundary Between Earth's Upper Atmosphere And Space Has Moved To Extraordinarily Low Altitudes, NASA Instruments Document

The height of the ionosphere/space transition is controlled in part by the amount of extreme ultraviolet energy emitted by the Sun and a somewhat contracted ionosphere could have been expected because C/NOFS was launched during a minimum in the 11-year cycle of solar activity. However, the size of the actual contraction caught investigators by surprise.

That article is from 2008 and there have been 6 additional years in which to hone ionospheric manipulation. Why close your eyes and pretend that all of this is natural, particularly when someone is actually claiming control and phasing into management?

a reply to: luxordelphi

Eastlund, father of HAARP, claimed that the height of the ionosphere could be altered using this technology.

No, he didn't.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: luxordelphi

Eastlund, father of HAARP, claimed that the height of the ionosphere could be altered using this technology.

No, he didn't.

Yes, he did.

The OMEGA File

"You can virtually lift part of the upper atmosphere," Eastland told OMNI, "You can make it move, do things to it." One of the tricks Eastland envisioned involved 'surgically' distorting the ionosphere to disrupt global communications. Pushing the upper atmosphere around might also generate high-altitude 'drag' that could heat and deflect enemy missiles or surround them with "high-energy electrons" that might cause the missiles to detonate in mid-trajectory. The proposal appealed to the Pentagon, which invested several hundred thousand dollars 'evaluating' Eastland's work. Eastland maintained that there were 'peaceful' uses for his technology. In one scenario, he explained how beams of electromagnetic power could lift portions of the upper atmosphere and redirect the jetstream to alter global weather patterns. Using "plumes of atmospheric particles to act as a lens or focusing device," Eastland proposed redirecting sunlight and heat to different parts of the Earth's surface, making it possible to manipulate wind patterns, cause rainstorms in Ethiopia, drive hurricanes out of the Caribbean, incinerate airborne industrial pollution and sew up the hole in the Antarctic ozone layer. "Because the upper atmosphere is extremely sensitive to small changes in its composition," OMNI cautioned, "merely TESTING an Eastland Device could cause irreversible damage."

a reply to: luxordelphi
Oh great. A third hand quote.
But even there he didn't say HAARP could affect the height of the ionosphere. He allegedly said "lift a part of the upper atmosphere."
Lifting a part of the upper atmosphere is not affecting the height of the ionosphere.

Let's refer to the patent discussed in the article:
www.google.com...
Does it say "raise the ionosphere?" No. It says:

FIG. 2 is one embodiment within the present invention in which a selected region of plasma is raised to a higher altitude;

Raising a selected region of plasma is not affecting the height of the ionosphere. Look at FIG. 2. Does it show the ionosphere being raised? No.


Too, the thing is there is a difference between what claims are made about an invention and what it can actually do. There is also this, from the patent:

Some embodiments of the present invention require large amounts of power, e.g., up to 10e9 to 10e11 watts, in continuous wave or pulsed power.

That's only, what? The equivalent of 10 nuclear power plants? HAARP had 5 diesel generators.

HAARP was not the embodiment of Eastlund's invention and apparently Eastlund thought that the jet stream controlled what happened to the the weather beneath it. He was wrong. The position of the jet stream is controlled by the atmosphere below it. He knew some stuff but he didn't know crap about climate and weather.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

The problem is YOU posted this as if it was an article about the title. Unfortunately, the article is a lie. If you have read it before posting, I would hope that your integrity would have prevented you from posting a lie.

Unless you can point out where in the article it offers quotes from the military about controlling weather.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

Yeah I agree it is on the way out, but I can say it is the last time I post information from another site, some people act as if I am making these claims.

And your not the first person who has started a thread that tries to say HAARP is for weather control either.

You see this is an old hoax that has been discussed and proven wrong many times before, so what makes this thread anymore credible than those before it?

Also whether or not you made the claims, you did make this thread, so there must have been something that makes you think this is possible...what was it that brought you to the point of starting the thread?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: MarlinGrace

At the GeoEngineering website an article with video makes claim by the Air Force's David Walker, deputy assistant secretary of the Air Force “To inject energy into the ionosphere to be able to actually control it. But that work has been completed.” In 1997 William Cohen made reference to HAARP and weather control as well.
- See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wouldn't get yourself to worried about anything that is on that site, being as it is Dane Wigington the chances of anything actually being true are slim and none.

He is a sham artist that enjoys taking gullible peoples money.

What's that called when you attempt to discredit the source and don't even bother to address the information presented?

Oh ya, its the classic "ad hominem" logical fallacy.