A question for the Brits in particular, and the rest What if America loses the War for Independence

a reply to: putnam6

Turtledove's two books on Japan taking Oahu/Hawaii (I need to double check just what exactly they captured in the book) just after Pearl Harbour left me deeply conflicted. On the one hand they were well-written and it was an interesting concept that changed a fundamental aspect of the Pacific theatre.
On the other hand given the tenuous nature of the entire seabourne lift of the Japanese Navy in the Second World War, plus the fact that units were used in multiple places to a schedule that was a) optimistic and b) only succeeded due to blind luck at times, I really don't think that the Japanese Army would ever have agreed to supply the forces required for the occupation of Hawaii.

a reply to: putnam6

Prime Minister Joe Biden had authorities arrest the scoundrel Donald Trump in the Southeast Territories today.

King Charles approved of the move.

And something, something jellied eels.

a reply to: putnam6

Yeah that’s my angle, the war was being fought in another country for the Pohms, kinda like the US in Vietnam or Afghanistan, tough job
That and they had a continental issue at the time, shaping Europe
The US got in at a fortunate time, well done, congratulations on independence and it was great for you
My issue is what you are becoming, unregulated political basket case

independentaustralia.net...
In Australia, some control is maintained when the government is seen as hostile, unfortunately by some foreign sources, those who claim to be your friends

I think your government is hostile to its people and become rogue
So what happens, nothing seemingly

But, not sure anyone can stop what’s coming

originally posted by: Debunkology
a reply to: putnam6

Well. Slavery would have ended sooner. Americans like to think that war of independence was all abour freedom. But what really drove American Independence was the North American entrepreneurs and upper middle class who wanted

1.) To keep slavery
2.) Expand on Native American land. (Why buy a house when you can get a build one far cheaper?)

England had already looked at its laws in 1772 that found slavery was always illegal due to English common law. And the British crown signed treaties with the natives not to expand west.

The American colonies were very expensive to run. Most of North America would be speaking Spanish. And maybe the British Empire wouldn't expand exponentially like it did.

Independence was actually good for both British Empire and United States. But not for the Native Americans, and slavery, which was delayed in the rest of the Empire for another 50 years.

Not trying to be argumentative just find it interesting and wonder what other areas were taught. Because

While all valid possibilities but wasn't England basically plundering the New World for its natural resources? for a long time... didn't it only get expensive when England was at war? or was struggling with some other occurrence natural or otherwise

about-history.com...

Beginning in the mid-17th century, Great Britain tried to establish complete control over the economic activities of the American colonies, implementing a program in which all manufactured goods were imported into the colonies from the metropolis in exchange for raw materials and agricultural goods. Under this scheme, the British businessmen, as well as the British government, were not interested in the development of industry in the colonies, nor in the colonies trading with anyone other than the mother country. Meanwhile, American industry had made significant progress. American industrialists succeeded in building ships, which made it possible to quickly establish trade.

The English Parliament considered these successes so menacing that in 1750, it issued a law prohibiting the construction of rolling mills and ironworking shops in the colonies. Foreign trade colonies also suffered harassment. In 1763, shipping laws were passed, under which goods were only allowed to be imported and exported from American colonies on British ships. In addition, all goods destined for the colonies had to be loaded in the UK, regardless of where they were exported from. The British tried to put all the foreign trade of the colonies under its control.

education.nationalgeographic.org...

England Establishes Permanent Colonies

Of all the European countries, England established the firmest foothold in North America. Like the other European countries, England was motivated in part by the lure of both riches and the Northwest Passage. In 1606, King James I granted a charter to colonize Virginia to the Virginia Company of London, a joint-stock company of investors who believed there was a profit to be made. They settled the colony of Jamestown. Yet, Britain soon had populated permanent settlements in the new world for a different reason.

The settlement of these colonies was motivated by religion. In 1620, a group of settlers left Plymouth, England, to join the settlers in Jamestown. Among them were the separatists, a group of people who believed the Church of England to be corrupt and thus sought to break from it. They believed the New World would offer them an opportunity to live and worship in accordance with their beliefs. They left England later than they had planned, and their ship was blown off course. They landed on the coast of present-day Massachusetts and named their settlement after the town from which they had set sail.

These Pilgrims were followed by countless others who settled along the Atlantic Coast. Britain encouraged these settlements, benefiting from the vast array of raw materials the colonies found and cultivated. In New England, the colonies engaged in fishing, lumber, and shipbuilding. Farther south, colonies provided tobacco, rice, and indigo. For almost 200 years, until the colonies fought and won their independence, England benefited financially from the relationship with its North American colonies.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: putnam6

Yeah that’s my angle, the war was being fought in another country for the Pohms, kinda like the US in Vietnam or Afghanistan, tough job
That and they had a continental issue at the time, shaping Europe
The US got in at a fortunate time, well done, congratulations on independence and it was great for you
My issue is what you are becoming, unregulated political basket case

independentaustralia.net...
In Australia, some control is maintained when the government is seen as hostile, unfortunately by some foreign sources, those who claim to be your friends

I think your government is hostile to its people and become rogue
So what happens, nothing seemingly

But, not sure anyone can stop what’s coming

I don't disagree perse but it's difficult to cover 3 centuries in a few paragraphs. Not to mention just because many countries are in the crapper now, doesn't mean we can trace it back to the original premise, of what happens if America loses the war of Independence or if it is never fought at all.

I am interested in what you believe is coming... but whatever that is it wasn't even conceivable in the 1700s #1 and #2 sometimes I think we have collectively worried about the Illuminati, Masons, or the "man" others on the list for so long TPTB play that chit up and use it as a distraction and misdirection for the same old tried and true corruption and wealthy accumulating schemes. At least that's my thoughts on the current system it's basically heavily influenced by corporations now, and probably always has been, but this crop of politicians takes it to another level. They probably made loads off big pharma and COVID and now those connected to the MIC are making bank.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: ElGoobero

I love Alternative History stuff

www.fantasticfiction.com...

If you like sci-fi too, I highly recommend For All Mankind. Cracking little alternative history series where the Russians get to the moon first. 👍🏻

originally posted by: Albert999

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: ElGoobero

I love Alternative History stuff

www.fantasticfiction.com...

If you like sci-fi too, I highly recommend For All Mankind. Cracking little alternative history series where the Russians get to the moon first. 👍🏻

For All Mankind was definitely an alternative history, with certain space psychics and female empowerment. Hell after watching it, I'm certain if every 1950s and 1960s male at NASA had let their wife, girlfriend, or Mom do their exact job, we would have colonized Mars and have a thriving Moon base and lunar mining as well as peace, tranquility, and harmony throughout the world.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: putnam6

Prime Minister Joe Biden had authorities arrest the scoundrel Donald Trump in the Southeast Territories today.

King Charles approved of the move.

And something, something jellied eels.

I will see your Jellied Eels and raise you *Throws a Wigan Slappy on the table*
www.foodsofengland.co.uk...

a reply to: putnam6

as i see it there are 2 British empires, one from 1600 to 1766 dominated by London and the later one dominated by Washington..

Americans oft suggest they are Babylon.. but Babylon was another game of 2 halves, in the old Babylon empire and neo Babylon empires..

so what if neither split their ideas would still dominate the empire, we just replace the east India company with BlackRock etc.. we can split Rome into more than 2.. indeed London and Rome both claim to be the inheritors of Troy..

its the age old conundrum the longer an empire goes on the more seats of power it has..

a reply to: putnam6

JEEZUS!! Talk about GIF overdose!!

My eyes! My eyes!!

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Albert999

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: ElGoobero

I love Alternative History stuff

www.fantasticfiction.com...

If you like sci-fi too, I highly recommend For All Mankind. Cracking little alternative history series where the Russians get to the moon first. 👍🏻

For All Mankind was definitely an alternative history, with certain space psychics and female empowerment. Hell after watching it, I'm certain if every 1950s and 1960s male at NASA had let their wife, girlfriend, or Mom do their exact job, we would have colonized Mars and have a thriving Moon base and lunar mining as well as peace, tranquility, and harmony throughout the world.

Lolz yeah, I had to give the woman empowerment bit a pass using suspended belief. Otherwise I might have hated it lol

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: putnam6

JEEZUS!! Talk about GIF overdose!!

My eyes! My eyes!!

It was just a July 4th Special, for our cousins across the pond