Australian police find Nazi machine-gun in traffic stop.... yup.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: intrptr
Yes. Possession is the critical part.

Without the barrel his weapon is considered inoperable, not a firearm in the legal sense.

Therefore, confiscation and arrest is unwarranted. I get it though in the New World Order of things, even when kids point their fingers at someone and go bang bang, its cause for alarm.

Not 'anti gun' or anything like that.

Now, stay tuned for more gun men, gun crime and gun violence, after the commercial break.

Take a M16 lower receiver in the US and get caught with it and no upper receiver and you will go to jail.
Just having a M16 trigger group and you are looking at having a long talk with a BATF agent.

having a military MP40 without a barrel in the US without a federal title 2 firearms permit for it will get you arrested because you are in possession of a full auto trigger group plus the weapons receiver.
Having the barrel is not needed for the violation.
www.uzitalk.com...

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: butcherguy
That would mean that the part that the reporter wrote describing it as 'in working order' is false.

Under Australian law, it's not considered inoperable unless the firing mechanism (including trigger) has been welded together, among other things. If it's not certified as permanently inoperable, it's considered a working firearm - even if some bits are missing, they can be fitted later.

That definition is crazy.
A firearm that can not fire a bullet is not an operable firearm by my definition, only because it makes sense.

Not really. I mean, yes, you are right and I understand the point you are making, but it's missing the point of the legislation, which is why I am contradicting you.

The legislation is to keep firearms out of the hands of the public. If taking the barrel out and hiding in the shed is all that it would take to defeat the legislation, it would be useless. If selling the components separately would get around the law, it would be useless.

It makes more sense if you think of "operable" as "capable of being made ready to fire, even if it's not ready at the moment." This same logic extends to blank firers, deacts, replicas, etc, usually with some caveat about the amount of work needed. If you can convert them without much hassle, they are treated as firearms because they are capable of being made ready to fire.

All of which is stupid to my mind, but that's the state of the law at the moment.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: butcherguy

. But to buy a barel you need a dealer license. Now he could probably get someone to purchase one and send it UPS. But until he does that he just has a paper weight.

I don't think that is true in the states...Pretty sure I can buy a barrel without issue online with no check of any kind. If I recall, it's the lower receiver containing the trigger that is the part you register (if you live in one of those states). It's also how that loophole exists where you buy the lower that isn't quite finished, so it's legal then you drill a hole yourself and bam you have a gun. I always thought this odd because you could buy a barrel, use it, then toss it.

a reply to: Ohanka

Ohanka, I was wondering the same thing. Why do they have to say its a "nazi" gun. Whats wrong with saying it was developed in Germany in 1938, like some other posters have stated are they maybe using fear to push for more gun control?

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: butcherguy

The point is such a gun would usually be a museum or collectors piece.

And they're saying that if you put a barrel on it, it could be used.

I own firearms from both WW1 and WW2, why do they have to be in a museum or a collectors piece? I also bring them to the range and shoot with them. Like some other members have said, I could have a truck parked in my driveway with no wheels on it and I wouldn't be able to use it but the minute I put the wheels on whammo I can use it. So saying that IF you put a barrel on the weapon it could be used is kind of redundant, just saying is all.

a reply to: uninspired

Barel's can make a firearm illegal in the states and is regulated.

www.offthegridnews.com...

as many people are fixated by the missing barrel :



a crop of the MP40 " exploded parts view "

further - making a replacement barrel - is not hard - all thats required = 3 tools , a lathe and the skills to use them

even the tooling can be made on the same lathe - though i would not bother trying to make a drill or reamer - they are availiable " off the shelf " for a reasonable price

and lastly - he had live rounds with the firearm - why would he have them - if it wasnt to be used ?

a reply to: ignorant_ape

A lot of people have ammo and don't "use" it.

And what do you mean "use" it?
Does mere possession of an mp40 infer that you are going to shoot people or something?

I don't get it.

originally posted by: uninspired
It's also how that loophole exists where you buy the lower that isn't quite finished, so it's legal then you drill a hole yourself and bam you have a gun. I always thought this odd because you could buy a barrel, use it, then toss it.

It's not a loophole, it's how the law is supposed to work. "Loophole" suggests that it is some kind of mistake or oversight that needs to be fixed - and this isn't.

Also, for clarity, you're referring to something called an 80% lower, which needs a lot more work than just drilling a hole. Many of them will need a fair bit of drilling/milling to make them usable. If more than 80% of the work is done by the manufacturer, it's treated as a completed firearm and would be sold as such, ie NICS and form 4473.

Usually they will have the external shaping completed and the magwell broached - the latter being one of the more difficult operations to carry out without the correct tools. The rest is up to you.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: uninspired

Barel's can make a firearm illegal in the states and is regulated.

www.offthegridnews.com...

No. Even your link doesn't say that.

A rifle barrel needs to meet a minimum length and have rifling, otherwise it needs to meet NFA regulations such as Form 1 (or 4 depending on the circumstances), tax stamps, etc.

If it doesn't fall into that category - and vast majority of commercially available barrels will meet the minimum length requirements - then no regulation is involved.

a reply to: butcherguy

A Nazi Machine Gun?! That's good stuff. Every potato gun I make from here on out will be referred to as an "Irish Cannon" in honor of the BBC.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
as many people are fixated by the missing barrel :

a crop of the MP40 " exploded parts view "

further - making a replacement barrel - is not hard - all thats required = 3 tools , a lathe and the skills to use them

even the tooling can be made on the same lathe - though i would not bother trying to make a drill or reamer - they are availiable " off the shelf " for a reasonable price

and lastly - he had live rounds with the firearm - why would he have them - if it wasnt to be used ?

Yet it was a submachinegun with no barrel, described as being in working order.
It does not work as intended without the barrel.
It would work, as previously mentioned, as a club to beat someone with, although not a good club.

a reply to: ANNED

a reply to: EvillerBob

Thanks for the corrections guys.. Gun laws are different down under... were much different back in my day, in the good ol US of A.

Australia has very strict gun control laws.

originally posted by: intrptr

Thanks for the corrections guys.. Gun laws are different down under... were much different back in my day, in the good ol US of A.

Gun laws are weird across the world, each country having its own set of peculiarities. It just so happens that I'm fairly familiar with this particular topic.

a reply to: EvillerBob

It just so happens that I'm fairly familiar with this particular topic.

So was I, back when.

Gun shows used to have miles of tables (Pomona), on one table you could by flats (to break rails from for any number of older Sub guns, parts kits, dewat military receivers, suppressor kits, tubes, fuzes, flares, military pyrotechnics, and lots other things (under the table).

Now, gone zip, nada, police state here we come.

a reply to: Chadwickus

Well, he did have 60 rds for it..seems like it's reasonable to think the barrel is hidden away somewhere.